We're almost always ahead on this flop. Like, if you run 4 loose live ranges (45% of hands minus the obvious 3bets JJ-AA), and PFRs tighter open range (and take away the obvious live cbets like 9x,TT-KK, but give him flop traps like AA/99), we're still ahead 75% of the time on this flop assuming no cards to come.



However, if we look at our equity to the river it's just 35% against the same ranges.



Bet flop for protection (in position!) is like the most obvious play in the book, here.
Clean up our immense equity advantage and make players pay to draw to beat us, obviously.

Turn I would check but if I were to bet it would be for a lot more than 15% pot which will keep everyone in and induce spazzes

Except you can only make them pay for one street since almost all turns suck. So unless you want to bet 2x pot (sarcasm) you aren't going to be able to charge them an incorrect price to draw especially since it will likely stay multiway

This is very helpful/thanks

If we have ~28% equity (9 flush outs 5 2pair/trips outs) on turn 5 handed don't we want to keep everyone in and/or induce spazzes? That was part of my mindset......

My main reason for posting this hand was for comments on turn. And I welcome comments on flop play...

But wonder if flop bet criticisms are based on being results oriented. If after my flop bet there were 1-2 callers (3 handed or heads up) instead of 4 callers would people still be saying "don't bet this flop"? IMO this would be a more likely scenario after my flop bet after preflop raiser checked flop. Agreed?

Not for me. I play for a living and no question I would check flop all day because I wouldn't have a plan for the rest of the hand. It's obvious there are no good runouts. I'm not some sicko that can navigate the spots this puts us in. Staying out of **** spots is part of being good at poker

Even if it's guaranteed to get hu or 3 ways everything sucks on the turn

Don’t understand the argument about flop.
Do you also not raise preflop with TT on the BTN over 5 limps because it only has less than 40% chance of being good OTF assuming all players call your flop bet? I mean, there are rarely good flops if we hold TT. So it’s better to just limp along?

Lol no. I raise TT every time in that spot. I also three bet if it's been raised because it's really tough to get put in a bad spot. Avoiding terrible spots is the point

With TT, we’re gonna get outdrawn (mainly by players hitting an overcard to the T) 60% of the time against 5 players heading to the flop. So if our raise never succeeds in getting a player to fold, we’re kind of in a “tough spot” I’d say.
Just like if everyone calls our flop bet with K9 on 954, there’s a decent chance we get outdrawn on the turn (less than 60% assuming each player has 4-5 outs).
Actually as seen above there is less chance we get outdrawn with K9 on 954 heading to turn, than TT versus 5 live preflop ranges heading to flop.
So yeah, I love the spot with K9 on 954, so I bet for value. We’re ahead probably 80% of the time or more. If I get raised I know I’m beat. We only get outdrawn a fraction of the time on the turn assuming all players call. Most likely we can get it heads up, in which case we’re fading like 4-5 outs (sometimes but rarely 8). Easy game.

Turn bet was a mistake with that many people. The people who called preflop pst you can have low 2p or a set. Opener easily can have a big ace. In fact, they’re playing like a big ace who doesn’t want a draw to suck out on the river. Nice bet from them. East fold to me.

Check the turn to realize your equity. Most likely behind in this multi-way setting.

OP what were results of the hand? Did you get to see Vs hand at showdown?

I wanted to avoid being results oriented in this post;

I just didn't see initial raiser checking flop and turn(especially turn) 5 handed and then shoving with a made hand so I called the allin shove. Everyone else folded (including some slow folders).

River was Ac.
Final board 9c5h4s Ah Ac
Villain showed 7s6s for missed open ender, my 9 was good.

It’s not about being results-oriented, it’s about finding out what Villain has that takes a pretty strange line. Like I said, the all-in sizing is pretty suspicious and I would have thought AK would rather check raise to a smaller amount.

Thanks for your post.