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Two Players Jam w/AKo Two Players Jam w/AKo

05-02-2018 , 04:06 AM
2/3 NL

Hero in SB with AKo ($500)
UTG raises to $20 ($300, just rebought after I stacked him)
UTG+1 calls ($120ish, plays really wide and hasn't shown a winner in a while)

Hero 3bets to $75

UTG tanks and shoves
UTG+1 snap calls
Hero ???

Not particularly worried about UTG+1, but with UTG tanking for a few minutes is this an auto call? In the previous hand I played with him, I flopped a set on an ace high board. He PFR to $12, check raised me on the flop and tank jammed after my 4bet shove.

He doesn't seem like the one to gamble, but he may be on a bit of tilt after the previous hand? I know AK is usually frowned upon when hero is faced with a jam, but is there ever a good reason to fold this?
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 08:39 AM
This is a live read situation. You have to judge the possibility that UTG is tilted and how tilted, plus how UTG+1 might be reacting to UTG being tilted. Depending on the players this could be a fold or a call.

Keep in mind is that UTG tanking doesn't always mean weak. In this sort of situation AA is going to tank also because he wants a call. An instant shove is likely weaker, indicating a degree of tilt that he is just autoshoving when you show aggression. Also, don't discount UTG+1 just because he has been playing garbage. After the 3 bet and shove he should have a credible hand to call. You should have odds to play. His most likely hand is a middle pair. but you probably need to hit to win the main pot. This cuts into the profitability even if you think UTG is tilted enough to be shoving garbage.
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 09:20 AM
Call.
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
This is a live read situation. You have to judge the possibility that UTG is tilted and how tilted, plus how UTG+1 might be reacting to UTG being tilted. Depending on the players this could be a fold or a call.

Keep in mind is that UTG tanking doesn't always mean weak. In this sort of situation AA is going to tank also because he wants a call. An instant shove is likely weaker, indicating a degree of tilt that he is just autoshoving when you show aggression. Also, don't discount UTG+1 just because he has been playing garbage. After the 3 bet and shove he should have a credible hand to call. You should have odds to play. His most likely hand is a middle pair. but you probably need to hit to win the main pot. This cuts into the profitability even if you think UTG is tilted enough to be shoving garbage.
This. Unless tilted a 4 bet shove at these stakes usually means we are racing at best (he's not doing this with AQ) and sometimes in a world of hurt when he has AA/KK.
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 12:17 PM
Don't see how we can fold this at this point especially with the other mostly dead money in the pot which helps offsets our ~flips against UTG.

Not 100% sure I would be 3betting an UTG raiser to begin with this deep with this little dead money in the pot. Overall, I think "tilt" is an overrated concept especially with regards to aggression. Mostly people on tilt more loosely limp/call preflop / loosely call postflop than anything else, imo. I'm not convinced that most "tilters" all of a sudden become aggro maniacs deep just because they lost a hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 12:20 PM
Not a lot of 4 bet weak jams at these stakes, so it's about your reads + pot odds.
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote
05-02-2018 , 08:35 PM
I often see this kind of tank shove as a 3-bet with 77-TT or so.

But not as a 4-bet.

It's QQ+ almost all of the time.

And it's his $300 stack that we might be dominated by if it is KK+.

Does't meet the smell test unless we are someone thinking they are both FOS.

Unlikely IMO.
Two Players Jam w/AKo Quote

      
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