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Old 04-14-2018, 06:07 AM   #1
BreakEvenAt1-3
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Two line checks - raised on the river

2 spots in 1/3 where I value bet and get raised on the river. Did I take the right line and can I fold the river in either spot? I feel like my bet sizing could use work...

Hero AA in SB
UTG straddle 6, 4 callers, I raise to 40, MP2 calls (loose fish)
Flop KT8
Hero Bet 60, V call
Turn 3
Hero Bet 100, V call
River 6
Hero Bet 125, V raised all-in for 150 more

New table, 300 effective
V Middle aged Asian
Hero UTG AT raise to 15, 2 callers
Flop A93
Hero bet 35, 2 callers
Turn A
Hero bet 70, V calls
River 2
Hero bet 100, V raises 100 more all-in
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:06 AM   #2
Minatorr
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Hand 1 i x/c river or x/f. He’ll bluff straight draws. I’d be inclined to call with AhAx.

Hand 2 ez fold pre, ap prob folding
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:41 AM   #3
ChrisV
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Hand 1 i x/c river or x/f. Hell bluff straight draws. Id be inclined to call with AhAx.

Hand 2 ez fold pre, ap prob folding
this
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:58 AM   #4
BreakEvenAt1-3
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
Hand 1 i x/c river or x/f. He’ll bluff straight draws. I’d be inclined to call with AhAx.

Hand 2 ez fold pre, ap prob folding
Hand 1, do you generally go into c/c mode when 3rd suit pops against your typical loose fish?

Hand 2, Is bet/folding all 3 streets optimal here on such a dry flop? Was having a hard time thinking what would make it to the river here that doesn’t beat me.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:23 AM   #5
Phantomshark
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Hand 1 - As a general rule, do not bet for value on 1 pair hands when an obvious draw hits on the river. Not only might they have that draw, they may also decide to rep that draw and blow you off the winner. x/c becomes your friend on overpair hands, costs you less when you are beat, and will pick you up some more money on occasion as a bluff catcher.

Hand 2 - You are probably beat, but you are getting almost 6-1 on a call, and I think he shows up with A-rag just enough to call here
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:34 PM   #6
johnnyBuz
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Why are you bombing the flop in H2? That board is drier than the Sahara.

Trips no kicker is the same as a pair with no kicker so you shouldn’t be going crazy there. Your hand is a good candidate to check the flop, although it should have been folded pre.
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Old 04-14-2018, 03:36 PM   #7
javi
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

bet sizing could you use some work. In hand 1 you bet less than half pot on a very wet board. This is not the kind of texture youre looking to save a nice river bet for, this is the kind of texture you want to get most value out of before the draw hits. With 200+ in the pot you could just jam the turn and expect to get called by worse.

Hand 2 is flawed, you really dont want to be raising ATo UTG ever, in any game. As played a flop bet is ok just to get thin value out of all the 9x hands and other non-believers, but check the turn once you make trips as now you're looking to pot control. Nothing worse is calling but you can bluffcatch a little. Live players have such poor bet sizing you might even be able to pay off a cheap river bet if they make it like $50 or something stupid. Played my way by going into x/c mode I probably call a river no matter how big he makes it since my opponent would not expect me to check back trips and therefore may go for a big bluff. Then again I am ok with folding if I pot controlled well enough and suddenly he's betting $150 or something after I've only put in a combined $60 or so.
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Old 04-14-2018, 03:54 PM   #8
snowman
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Quote:
Originally Posted by javi View Post
bet sizing could you use some work. In hand 1 you bet less than half pot on a very wet board. This is not the kind of texture youre looking to save a nice river bet for, this is the kind of texture you want to get most value out of before the draw hits. With 200+ in the pot you could just jam the turn and expect to get called by worse.

Hand 2 is flawed, you really dont want to be raising ATo UTG ever, in any game. As played a flop bet is ok just to get thin value out of all the 9x hands and other non-believers, but check the turn once you make trips as now you're looking to pot control. Nothing worse is calling but you can bluffcatch a little. Live players have such poor bet sizing you might even be able to pay off a cheap river bet if they make it like $50 or something stupid. Played my way by going into x/c mode I probably call a river no matter how big he makes it since my opponent would not expect me to check back trips and therefore may go for a big bluff. Then again I am ok with folding if I pot controlled well enough and suddenly he's betting $150 or something after I've only put in a combined $60 or so.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:58 AM   #9
gobbledygeek
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Re: Two line checks - raised on the river

Next time state stack sizes at the beginning as they influence early streets. Also post pot sizes on each street as bet sizes should be relative to pot size.

H1:

Looks like stacks are $475?

With these stack sizes and all these limpers / dead money, I raise slightly more to setup a more trivial stack off situation postflop, so like $50+.

Looks like pot size is $110 with us having $435 left so an SPR of 4. Board is very drawy. Even though I would have liked to have raised slightly more preflop to feel a bit more comfortably committed, I still believe we are. This is not a board to slowplay over 3 streets, so I PSB the flop to PSB shove the turn. Not a fan of our betsizing plan to get this done over 3 streets when committed, imo.

Pot is $230 on the turn. Not in love with our << 1/2 PSB here, especially if feeling committed.

This is the problem with attempting to play this board over 3 postflop streets; by the river, we only have $275 left in what is now a $430 pot, and yet there is far too good a chance a scare card will roll off and then what? And if we bet it we leave a lol amount behind (at this point we're being asked to call $150 to win a huge $825), can we really fold? And yet really the only hand we're ahead of is a busted QJ.

Overall, I think we were committed due to preflop and should have gotten all the chips in by the turn. We made this hand much more difficult than it should have been due to our betsizing, imo.


H2:

I fold AJo in EP, and I actually don't think it would be a terrible crime to open fold AQo. ATo is really weak and an easy fold, imo.

Thanks to preflop, we're created a bloated pot OOP with a fairly weak hand with an SPR of 6 (where anyone can easily make us play for stacks by the river). Our preflop raise has often limited Ax hands to ones better than ours. I'm pretty happy if the flop checks around for pot control. We're WA/WB on this board. I check the flop. When both people call the flop bet, I'm pretty much at the stage where I might just open muck my hand at this point.

The turn card looks like it improves our hand; against this flop action it doesn't, unless we are playing with the worst poker players of all time. It counterfeits 93, and that's it, and noone has 93. I have no idea why we are betting; we think we're getting called by worse? It's closer to a hero check/fold than anything else.

Same deal for river. On this drawless board and given this action, unless villain is very inexperienced (I HAZ TRIPS!), we're almost never ahead.

Overall, we overvalued our hand on each street and built way too big a pot with it.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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