both hands took place at the same table. extremely limp happy table, standard raise is 25-35, there is little to no aggression, very passive table. draws are always check/called with whether you price them out or not and TPTK/two pair hands are played very strong. i have an extremely aggressive image. wish i could give more specific reads but really this is one of those tables where nothing splashy to make note of was really happening.

hand #1

utg limps, utg +2 limps, mp1 limps, mp2 limps, i decide to limp with 33 from the CO (stack of 700), sb folds, bb checks

flop: 6 5 3

utg checks, utg +2 bets 20, mp1 and 2 both smooth call. i make it 100. utg +2 folds, mp1 shoves his stack of 250, mp2 smooth calls the 250 leaving 300 behind. action is on me. what do you do here?

hand #2

utg +1 limps, mp1 limps, mp2 limps, i make it 35 from the button with XX (stack of 800). utg +1 folds, mp1 calls (stack of around 600), mp2 calls (stack of 700 ish).

flop: 4 3 10

checks around to me, i bet 75. folds to mp2 who smooth calls.

turn: J

he checks to me, i bet 120. he min check-raises to 240. i call.

river: J

villian shoves around 375. what is your calling range here?

Hand 1:

I'm not folding here so the question is whether to call the 250 or shove to get MP2's remaining stack in the middle. It really looks like he's on a draw here so I'd probably shove.


Hand 2:

It really looks like villian has a boat here - I can see him taking this line with JT,44,33, and TT. The only way I see him just having trip jacks is if he had something like AJ/KJ/QJ/J9cc, called the flop for the flush draw, then hit running jacks. Since this is a possibility, I'd call with any boat and make a crying call with AJ and KJ.

so you're never folding in hand 1? mp2s smooth call of the shove reallyyyy scared me, i guess i was just having a nitty moment. waiting for a few more responses and i'll post the results, both are pretty interesting.

In Hand 1, if MP2 had a higher set or flopped straight, I really think he would raise on the flop at one of the oppurunities he had due to the heart draw. I could see him maybe smooth calling the first bet hoping someone would raise as you did, but after I have to think he'd just jam over top of MP1's shove if he had anything that beat us.

yeah actually when you put it that way that makes sense, during the hand i took that smooth call completely differently. i thought he was smooth calling to try to get my chips in the pot as well, thinking a shove would get me off my hand. so you put the initial shove on a heart draw?

Hand 1:
Based on your comment about the extremely aggro image, you have to shove. Why build up the image if not to play stacks with someone who has AhKh here? or 65? even A6 or overpair? Calling MP1 is kind of a crying call, because he could have been waiting to trap you with a monster and show 66, on the other hand, could be trying to trap you with KK or AA, so I would take the chance. MP2 is so likely a FD or FD/SD, that unless he is the table rock you didn't mention, time to get the money in.

Hand 2:
Full house only. If you had a J, you misplayed the turn so badly, it doesn't really matter.

definitely valid points for both hands. i tend to agree on mostly everything you guys are saying on hand 1, but for some reason had completely different thoughts on hand two. i'm gonna get berated when i post the results lol

*Grunch*

Hand one, overshove all day long. MP1 *might* be beating us, but the extra from MP2 def makes it worthwhile, as he is almost certainly on a draw. MP1 likely has a real hand, but that might as well be a perceived real hand like TT, rather than a slow played set. MP2 looks like he's on some kind of combo draw, hearts plus overs or SD and FD.

Hand two, i have trouble calling the turn without an overpair. In these limp-fests, the c/min-r just screams strength. As played I don't think I call river if I can't beet trip Jacks.

damn, i wanted to know if i luckboxed my decisions and it looks like i did because i perceived both situations a little differently than all three of you guys.

hand 1:
the shove and smooth call on the flop just screamed massive strength to me. i just couldn't imagine the first shove being a draw, live players tend not to do that type of thing. i perceived that move as pure strength, and then the smooth call of that shove just further stamped it in my head that i was beat.

hand 2:
this hand i saw completely differently. his quick call on the flop just screamed flush draw to me, as this guy isn't someone i believe would ever use a quick call as a reverse tell. then on the turn, i saw the check min-raise as a way to re-establish aggression in the hand as cheaply as possible so he could still have a decent sized shove left in case he misses the river. finally, the river shove just screamed desperation to me because of how extremely aggressive i've been this entire session; he would know that if he checked that river i would bet into him more than 80% of the time.

results: (please give your opinion on the hands and on my reads before checking them out)

Hand 1: I call. MP1 may have us, but I would jam it in and try to get MP2 to ship the rest of their stack.

Hand 2: I could actually see calling with with x-10. The villain could have flopped two pair which is now counterfeited, and I would have been calling the turn minraise without a big draw at the minimum. If I had an overpair or set on the turn, I would be reraising if I thought the villain was capable of check/minraising with Ax. I have run into several villains lately who like to minraise their draws on the turn to represent a big hand. If the villain is over 40, I fold. Under 30 and I lean more towards the call. (Stereotypes, but have been pretty accurate for me lately.)

on hand two, you said under 30 you lean towards a call and over 40 you lean towards a fold. what is the hand we're assuming you have in that situation?

What level is this? Tom Dwan 5-10 ? Thinking those of us trying to beat 1-2 and learn 2-5 are playing a different game. Maybe I'm too from H2 results though...

lmao whatttt? i guess i thought way too deep into the hand.. probably in my best interest not to do that playing 2-5 live lol

Pretty sure Tom Dwan has not played 5/10 for a long time.

Well played in Hand 2.

thank you kind sir.

In hand 1 the flat is never an overset IMO meaning I probably just jam and pray for a board pair. Usually like a4hh

yeah good point, i probably should have just shoved and played for his extra 250 chips even though i thought the first shove already had me beat. in a vacuum probably a bad fold

Just a little surprised that the big pot/ big hand adage isn't mentioned throughout this page. Unless there are some Durrr copycats (also soulreading on Level 3-6 or so) at this 2/5 table, I'm not sure how many times the hero shove with A high is going to show +EV. Not that it doesn't make good reading tho

C.f. -cross-posted from another of OP's threads- http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...80&postcount=2

yeah i suppose this type of thinking isn't going to get me very far playing 2/5 live. i guess it's time to tone it down and save the actual "thinking" for online play.