Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2017, 10:22 AM   #1
djevans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,750
Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Hero $1100 - Pretty new to session - maybe been playing about 1 - 2 hours. Lost a few hands but ust stacked a shorter stacked guy with top 2 pair so i'm pretty much even.

Villain - Asain girl who is on a $700 stack. She hasn't been active at all, so no idea what kind of range she should have.

Hero is UTG+1 with 99 and goes $15
Villain 3bets to $50 -
Folds to me and i'm not folding for this price so I call

$107
QQ3
Check
Check

9
I lead $75
She goes $200

Hero??
I'm not sure if calling and leading river or just clicking it back or jamming is best option here. Everything seems very odd to do.

Her most likely hand is AA KK AQ since she has been so quiet at the table. Maybe a flush with AK or she is just making a wild move. I am almost 100% sure I have the best hand unless she has QQ
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:35 AM   #2
iraisetoomuch
Using one time every time
 
iraisetoomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 17,159
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

There is 1 combo that you lose to.
And you're ahead of many.

I assume this is a how to get all the money question.
It click it back to $400 and shove the river for $300 eff.
iraisetoomuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:40 AM   #3
djevans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,750
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
There is 1 combo that you lose to.
And you're ahead of many.

I assume this is a how to get all the money question.
It click it back to $400 and shove the river for $300 eff.
ya - best way to get the $$$$

I think almost anything I do is going to get a lot of folds.
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:54 AM   #4
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,308
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

I don't think it makes much difference. Villain had $700 at start of hand. She is in for $250 already. Anything you do looks very strong on a paired board with a possible flush. I like a near min raise to $350. Folding for only another $150 now will be hard and that leaves her with only $300 on river with a $800 pot.

She may be raising now to see if her AQ/AA/KK is good. If that is the case she is likely to fold no matter what but you probably can't get that money no matter what you do.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 11:09 AM   #5
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,710
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Call and check river. I don't know why I have to post this in every thread where you keep saying it's hard to stack people but it's super easy to stack people when they are raising and going bananas. It's clicking the call btn.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 11:16 AM   #6
Koss
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Playing Recreationally
Posts: 4,532
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Call. You may not be able to get her stack if she has AA/KK but raising again will tip your hand strength. If she has a Q the money probably goes in no matter how you play it. If she doesnt, she either has air or some other hand she thinks is good but a raise from you would at least set off alarm bells. I am calling here and check shoving the river.
Koss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 11:17 AM   #7
sai1b0ats
veteran
 
sai1b0ats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,464
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

I ship here. Not familiar with villains (who aren't known pros) who 3bet pre and pull a r/f on the turn. Whether she's got AdAx or AsAc or AQ, best to get the monies in now, because lots of river check backs when facing AA and a passive villain here.
sai1b0ats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 06:19 PM   #8
HawkesDave
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 940
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Hero clicks GII button, V calls, turns over QQ for the arctic shower and Hero quits poker forever
HawkesDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 06:30 PM   #9
Amanaplan
acanalpanamA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Getting There
Posts: 3,066
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Call and check river. I don't know why I have to post this in every thread where you keep saying it's hard to stack people but it's super easy to stack people when they are raising and going bananas. It's clicking the call btn.
I don't either. It's a call and check.
Amanaplan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 06:52 PM   #10
Petrucci
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,349
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Call and check river. I don't know why I have to post this in every thread where you keep saying it's hard to stack people but it's super easy to stack people when they are raising and going bananas. It's clicking the call btn.
+1, this isnt rocket science.

Widen your own continuerange as much as possible by calling the turnraise, and let villain continue to feel good about their hand. Its so much easier for villain to make costly mistakes for stacks if you keep your own range non faceup as possible as the situation allows us to do, not by overplaying it and giving villain reasons to herofold or not to stick rest of the money in on the river.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 07:30 PM   #11
samo
veteran
 
samo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,765
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Readless on the opponent so I can't count on her shoving river if checked to. There are 4 or 5 combos beating V that will get money in now or later.

Still, I like calling turn and shoving river. Give her the chance to hero call, maybe improved, or with a big hand that would have called turn shove anyway.
samo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 07:37 PM   #12
Rich Checkmaker
banned
 
Rich Checkmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,443
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

since you are OOP and there are 3 diamonds out there and 1 more might kill your action i like going all in here on the turn. i fully expect to get called often here.
Rich Checkmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 07:57 PM   #13
momo_uk
old hand
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,964
Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Call and check river. I don't know why I have to post this in every thread where you keep saying it's hard to stack people but it's super easy to stack people when they are raising and going bananas. It's clicking the call btn.

Agreed. Clicking it back is just asking everything except AQ to fold. Plus AQ is always betting river. Although it might bet/fold.
momo_uk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:02 PM   #14
djevans
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: springfield, VA
Posts: 3,750
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

What's wrong with a call and a river lead?
djevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:22 PM   #15
johnnyBuz
Pooh-Bah
 
johnnyBuz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Beast Coast
Posts: 5,154
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

When villain is going ape **** putting her stack in the middle just get out of the way. Super easy call and x/c or x/ship river.
johnnyBuz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 09:38 PM   #16
Rich Checkmaker
banned
 
Rich Checkmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,443
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

also keep in mind a woman is more likely to call you. period.
Rich Checkmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:49 PM   #17
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 10,710
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
+1, this isnt rocket science.

Widen your own continuerange as much as possible by calling the turnraise, and let villain continue to feel good about their hand. Its so much easier for villain to make costly mistakes for stacks if you keep your own range non faceup as possible as the situation allows us to do, not by overplaying it and giving villain reasons to herofold or not to stick rest of the money in on the river.
These are the reasons why we call that I didn't bother explaining. Good post.

also fwiw don't over apply this and start check calling a lot. That's bad.

Just...when people raise and you have sets/full houses/nut flushes, flat more. Don't be afraid of cards.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 12:22 AM   #18
cicakman
banned
 
cicakman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,231
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Just tank a little and shove
cicakman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 08:06 AM   #19
Petrucci
veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,349
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
What's wrong with a call and a river lead?
Whats wrong is that we crack the illusion we want to create. And the illusion we want to create is that we have a scared somewhat undefined hand that we are hoping getting to showdown with- like we have KK or AA and is superuncomfortable wth the turnraise because we are scared of trip Q or full boats.

So to build uppon that illusion even further, of course we need to check the river in order to not blow our own cover (you would never ever lead with hands like KK or AA on the river after getting raised on the turn)- and let villain continue to percieve our range as weak. Checking the river is in the normal gameflow, and everything about the situation will tell villain that trip Q is good= villain will blast money into the pot.

Then you can check-shove (spring the trap), and then the chances are _alot_ bigger that villain commits to a stackoff while stating classic frases like "i cant fold now, too big of a pot", "i just have to see it, i call". Remember that pokerplayers get more emotionally attached to pots the more money they have put in the middle, and the bigger the pot is. Its an important concept that helps you getting paid off the max in similar spots like this.

Last edited by Petrucci; 10-15-2017 at 08:13 AM.
Petrucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 09:32 AM   #20
sai1b0ats
veteran
 
sai1b0ats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,464
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Checkmaker View Post
also keep in mind a woman is more likely to call you. period.
True. You'd need a really nitty image to get a fold here. Imagine trying to turn some hand into a bluff in this spot. Should be against AA and never folding a ton here, occasionally Qx. (and lol quads of course)
sai1b0ats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 09:36 AM   #21
sai1b0ats
veteran
 
sai1b0ats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,464
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
What's wrong with a call and a river lead?
the other two choices have merit and this is the worst of all worlds. points for confusion maybe.
sai1b0ats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 12:12 PM   #22
matzah_ball
veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,223
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Call and check river is the best, and call and lead river is by far the worst.
matzah_ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 12:42 PM   #23
6bet me
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,466
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

My default play here is to call turn and x/jam river. I do this for 2 reasons:
1) If she raised turn, then there's a good chance she's going to bet the river, regardless of whether she's bluffing or value betting.
2) If we 3bet the turn then she can make some hero folds with hands like AQ and weak flushes. We don't want this to happen.
6bet me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 04:49 PM   #24
pocketzeroes
veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,254
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

I think I probably click it back here... After inactive Asian girl 3bets and raises this turn, I think she has AQ, AA, KK, QQ, AK (bluffs), AdKd -- with exactly AdKd being the most likely hand in terms of weighting (but only one combo). If she has AdKd, she's not folding. If she has AQ, she's not folding. If she has AA with Ad she's not folding. Probably the same with KK with Kd. If she has AKo with Ad, she's likely not folding... That leaves only AA or KK or AK bluffs - and I'm heavily discounting all of these hands anyway, and I don't know that she puts more money in the pot on the river with those hands.

So basically, get more value from AQ before the board 4flushes. Get more value from AdKd before the board double pairs or Q trips up. Get more value from AA with Ad before she whiffs her flush card on the river... Then she only has 250 more to call off on the river.
pocketzeroes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2017, 05:12 PM   #25
Rich Checkmaker
banned
 
Rich Checkmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,443
Re: Turned a set in 3bet pot - 2/5 150bb deep

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketzeroes View Post
I think I probably click it back here... After inactive Asian girl 3bets and raises this turn, I think she has AQ, AA, KK, QQ, AK (bluffs), AdKd -- with exactly AdKd being the most likely hand in terms of weighting (but only one combo). If she has AdKd, she's not folding. If she has AQ, she's not folding. If she has AA with Ad she's not folding. Probably the same with KK with Kd. If she has AKo with Ad, she's likely not folding... That leaves only AA or KK or AK bluffs - and I'm heavily discounting all of these hands anyway, and I don't know that she puts more money in the pot on the river with those hands.

So basically, get more value from AQ before the board 4flushes. Get more value from AdKd before the board double pairs or Q trips up. Get more value from AA with Ad before she whiffs her flush card on the river... Then she only has 250 more to call off on the river.
for all of these reasons plus the fact that clicking it back looks stronger than jamming, its time to go all-in.

this is not the time to slow play and go for the call and check raise river. this is a bad idea imo.

results?
Rich Checkmaker is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online