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Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL

04-28-2019 , 01:29 PM
I'm an experienced limit player but want to learn no limit to change things up and I enjoy the learning process. I'm only halfway through HoldemTAP and HOC vol1. Professional no-limit Holdem is on the nightstand waiting to get started.

Anyways game is 1/3 and I've only been there a few orbits, my stack is about 180 and villain has me covered. I had one hand previously with villain where I opened in MP with AJs, villain flatted in SB and a I whiffed a middling two tone flop. I cbet flop, he called, then he donked the turn of flushes and straight makings with maybe 2/3 pot so I folded. So below is almost a replay but now I have a hand. I think my image is nitty and inexperienced because I'm taking way longer to count chips for bet sizing than everyone else.

I welcome comments on any street.

Pre-flop:
Folds to hero in CO QTurn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL:8Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL:
Hero raises to $10
Folds to BB who flats

Flop:
5Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL6Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL9Turn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL:
Villain checks
Hero bets $20
Villain calls

Turn:
QTurn TPNK + gutshot, limit player learning NL:
Villain donks $40
Hero? Has $150 left so if I call I have less than pot left...


Side note: Pre-flop I wanted to open raise to $12 (4bb) all the time but only had $5 chips most of the night. I was worried that calling out exact number increments when I raised would make me stick out in a weird way so I decided I was either opening 3.3bb or 5bb depending on his big I wanted the pot if called. Maybe I'm leveling myself here so curious what people do with that.
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04-28-2019 , 02:15 PM
My random thoughts on OP:
-Lol, people still play limit in 2019??
-I don't know what book Holdem TAP is, but there are better books out there then HOC or professional NL Holdem. Ed Miller and Matt Janda's books come to mind.
-Why would you not make it 12$ if that's what you want it to be? I would make it 12 dollars and 43 cents if the casino would allow it. It's the dealers job to give you the correct change. Or just ask another player to change some of your 5's.

OTTH:
Pre: other than the sizing, yeah fine.

Flop: Limit players probably(?) cbet too often, and you do need to realise this flop is good for the BB's range and bad for ours, so proceed with caution. Having said that, I definitely do like a bet, to fold out KT+ and put pressure on 5x/6x, but full pot sizing is too big, i'd probably go $12-$15.

Turn: There are almost no hands worse than ours that call a shove, so easy call here, he probably has some two pairs or Qhigh FD's, but mostly this is 9x or bare flush draws trying to set a price or fold out overs.

River: If he shoves i'm mostly folding, but if he checks we could jam on blank cards for some value.
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04-28-2019 , 02:30 PM
No limit Holdem theory and practice by skanskly and Miller.

Thanks I'll check out janda and Miller.

Lol yes I still play limit. When I was a fish I played it because I was a broke student who didn't want to lose money and enjoyed playing lots of hands.

I was cbetting pot pretty often and got the sense some of the LAGs were looking to float me because of it but I would then fire a big 2nd barrel and they really didn't like screwing around with $40 bets without a hand. I'm going to try to think carefully about what better hands fold when I do, thanks.

Call turn and shove blank rivers if checked to, makes sense.
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04-29-2019 , 07:58 AM
I agree with most of what Viral25 says here, especially IRT the c-bets.

I would definitely call the turn, but I don't see the value in shoving a blank river. I just don't see what we beat that calls that.
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04-29-2019 , 12:28 PM
Welcome to the dark side! I also come from Limit from about a ~decade ago. NL might as well be a completely different form of poker, imo, and so you'll have quite the learning curve ahead of you. Good luck!

I think there are arguments for all 3 plays (fold, open limp, raise) preflop. If raising, I'm fine with a smallish one. The more inexperienced you are, the more you should be leaning towards keeping the pot small (limping) and perhaps not even playing the hand at all (folding).

I'm fine with our cbet. We have some equity with our gutshot + over, we fold better hands (such as whiffed Ax/Kx/betterQx all the time, we can get called by worse (draws), etc. However, there is no reasons to bet so much. A $10 bet will accomplish the exact same thing as a $20 bet for way cheaper.

One of the big mantras to learn around here is: "They're not playing back at me". You'll start thinking that all the time, but for the most part, they ain't. Especially when you've shown some strength (you raised preflop and cbet the flop) and especially when you have a small stack which could be easily committed (you'll only have $110 left in a $140 pot). I typically find a donk in this case (call preflop raise, call flop bet, donk into the raiser on the turn when he could be committed) super strong, but that's my experience; eventually you'll get a better read on this guy, but 1 HH likely ain't enough (especially when you didn't see the result).

It's a tough spot and I don't think there's any great answer. Maybe this is one of the times early that you take a stand just to see what he's about (or at least call the turn donk to see what he does on the river). But my guess is that you'll eventually learn all about him for much cheaper after you play this game with him over the next many years.

Ggoodluck!G
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04-29-2019 , 01:23 PM
If half pot cbet can get the job done almost just as often I'll try it out. In a few hours of play my flop barrels got way more than their share of folds. In limit they need to work much less often to be worth. It's hard to guage if people fold around 15% or 10% but much easier to tell they are folding more than half the time.

I just need to make myself let go if they play back and I have because it's not worth punishing bluffs when they fold so often anyways right?

My stack was down from a thin bluff catch that didn't work out and getting in with an even smaller shorty with AA preflop and getting cracked.
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04-29-2019 , 01:56 PM
Yeah, river bluffs are pretty rare in LLSNL. Because they are so expensive in NL, Vs tend to be very afraid to pull the trigger and under-bluff significantly. There's not much money in bluff catching at this level, although there are obviously places for it sometimes.
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04-29-2019 , 02:07 PM
I'd get some $1 chips. I also like a $12 preflop raise, but $10 is fine.

On the flop, I'd bet smaller and as played I'd call the turn. I don't think villain is playing back at you but could easily be a hand like 9x that either wants AK/AJ gone or is semibluffing vs. JJ-TT. Not enthused about putting in more money unimproved though.
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04-29-2019 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Means
I'd get some $1 chips. I also like a $12 preflop raise, but $10 is fine.

On the flop, I'd bet smaller and as played I'd call the turn. I don't think villain is playing back at you but could easily be a hand like 9x that either wants AK/AJ gone or is semibluffing vs. JJ-TT. Not enthused about putting in more money unimproved though.
So you say call turn but not a river bet and check back river if we can?
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