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Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float

01-05-2019 , 08:36 PM
2/2 (max 150)

Villian is a loose agro player and has me covered. I have seen him floating and bluffing multiple times during the evening.

Hero (stack 90) has a very tight image (card dead whole night) and lost 40 two hands ago whit a unsuccesfull bluff (not versus villian).

Oth:

New player at the table (has me covered) limps in EP. Hero finds QKcc on the CO and raises to 10. Villian calls on the btn and the limper as well.

FLOP: 6h 2c 7h (pot 34)

The pre flop limper checks to me. I decide to c-bet 20 into 34 b/c I have 2 overs and a backdoor fd while villian has a wide range. At this moment I also know that villian is probably going to float one street anyway. Villian indeed calls and the EP limper folds. Any thoughts on my play here? Given villians playing style this seems pretty standard right?

TURN: 10c (pot 76, hero has 60 left)

I am ahead of villians range. Villian is very capable of betting the turn with air when I check to him on the turn.

I have 3 options here imo: x/f, x/r all in or shoving. The first option woulf be a big mistake I guess given my flop bet and reads on villian. Disadvantage of shoving is that he folds all his air hands and only calls with better hands than me. X/r , on the other hand, could be a bit awkward given the stacksizes. What would you guys do on the river here?
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 08:47 PM
2/2 150 cap, this game sounds like the nut low...

With a game this shallow you have to be careful with c-betting air because it'll quickly commit you to the hand. I don't mind c-betting this flop sometimes, but you have to realize this board hits Vs range harder than yours and you're only going to fold out total air against someone as sticky as you described.

As played, jam turn. You turn a FD to go with 2 overs, you have less than a PSB behind, and a sticky V with the propensity to float flops is going to have all kinds of weak holdings here.
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by branch0095
2/2 150 cap, this game sounds like the nut low...

With a game this shallow you have to be careful with c-betting air because it'll quickly commit you to the hand. I don't mind c-betting this flop sometimes, but you have to realize this board hits Vs range harder than yours and you're only going to fold out total air against someone as sticky as you described.

As played, jam turn. You turn a FD to go with 2 overs, you have less than a PSB behind, and a sticky V with the propensity to float flops is going to have all kinds of weak holdings here.
Agree with you regarding c-betting in these kind of games. This is in general something that I do way to often given the kind of players I play against...

Regarding shoving turn: Is this mainly because of the stacksizes? I would suppose that given the fact that villian has a wide range on the turn and is capable bluffing, a x/r would be more profitable in the long run right (if stack sizes would be bigger ofc)? So what would be the reason to shove in this specific case? Protection? As I would only be called by better hands...
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scfvatos
Agree with you regarding c-betting in these kind of games. This is in general something that I do way to often given the kind of players I play against...

Regarding shoving turn: Is this mainly because of the stacksizes? I would suppose that given the fact that villian has a wide range on the turn and is capable bluffing, a x/r would be more profitable in the long run right (if stack sizes would be bigger ofc)? So what would be the reason to shove in this specific case? Protection? As I would only be called by better hands...
Fold equity. With so little behind, you're never generating folds via a c/r in this spot. Id actually be surprised if V bets an amount less than AI if he did decide to bet turn given there's only $60 behind. You're not folding with 2 overs and a FD, so you may as well jam yourself and maximize whatever FE you have. If he folds, then great, you have K high. If he calls, you have upwards of 13 outs to the river, and every now and then you'll have the best hand against Vs draws. I could get on board with a c/r if you're playing deeper, but you guys are ridiculously shallow and the next bet from either of you is AI.
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 09:51 PM
Why are we playing 45BB? It severely constrains our options. We're committed to practically every flop we see.

KQcc is a reasonable hand to stack off with short-stacked. So we're just stacking off over 3 streets - applying maximum pressure with decent equity. C-bet flop, shove turn. That's what you would do with over-pairs so it's what you should do with this.

x/r the turn would have zero fold equity.

Seriously though, just don't play this ****ty game.
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 10:38 PM
+1 to what branch said. Also posting to point out that there isn't that much air for villain to have on the turn that you are ahead of.

Following hands are ahead of us and we don't mind V folding them, although some he may call with like the 6/7x hands:
33/44/55, Ax, 6x, 7x

All Tx hands got there, (K/Q/J/9/8)T. 89 is a straight.

So what remains for V to have that is actual complete air? The only complete air V has is KJ, QJ, J9 that isn't hearts. I guess if he has Q9/Q8 and J8 that counts too, but don't know if he plays them. So there is not much "value" in checking, way better to get him to fold out his equity(or hands that are ahead) and take it down, I think more of his combos and floats are actually ahead of us right now.
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote
01-05-2019 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixxcube
+1 to what branch said. Also posting to point out that there isn't that much air for villain to have on the turn that you are ahead of.

Following hands are ahead of us and we don't mind V folding them, although some he may call with like the 6/7x hands:
33/44/55, Ax, 6x, 7x

All Tx hands got there, (K/Q/J/9/8)T. 89 is a straight.

So what remains for V to have that is actual complete air? The only complete air V has is KJ, QJ, J9 that isn't hearts. I guess if he has Q9/Q8 and J8 that counts too, but don't know if he plays them. So there is not much "value" in checking, way better to get him to fold out his equity(or hands that are ahead) and take it down, I think more of his combos and floats are actually ahead of us right now.
Very good point. Thank you. By the hands you mentioned I starting to realise that I am actually not really (so far) ahead of V's range.I make these kind of mistakes too often I guess, need to work on that.

Would you shove any club/good draw here? Would something change if we would hit a Q or K? Or is check/r here never an option b/c of stack sizes?

Last edited by scfvatos; 01-05-2019 at 11:38 PM.
Turn decision vs LAG after probably a flop float Quote

      
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