Hero 40 year old white guy. Very talkative. Pretty much the DNegs of 1/3 NLHE. Only 1 player knows me and he is a young NIT that isn't involved in the hand. $500 stack

Villain 1 is MAWG. Very quiet and observant. Not on phone or drinking. $250 stack
Villain 2 is aggro fish. Preflop, he is raising when limped to and insta calls 3bets. GII with any piece. $70 stack

OTTH

2 limps to Hero with J9. Hero raises to $20. To the preflop police, feel free to get your post count up with a fold pre.

V2 is on button and calls.
V1 is in SB and calls.
All others fold.

Flop ($67) J 8 5.
SB checks. Hero bets $40 V1 jams for $50. SB calls. Hero calls.

Turn ($217) 6

SB bets $50 with $130 behind. Hero covers. Hero Obv never folding here. GII, click back or call and why plz???? Thx///

What hands does SB call the flop and lead turn for ~1/3 of stack? I think you should just jam here, a bad river might slow down two pair, sets or even straights.


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I would just call turn and hopefully let him bet all in on the river/ then bet all in ourselves if he checks, a raise on the turn might scare him off

"Talkative" doesn't tell us much about your image as far as perceived playing style goes. Have you been raising a lot? C-betting a lot? Caught bluffing?

V2 has committed almost half of his stack and would get like 3.4:1 to call a shove. I don't think he is folding now but some rivers might be enough to spook him or outdraw you. Raise it up.

Pre can't be that bad if they are weak players

I would cut it out as 50 in one stack and 100 in another stack then say 100 more

I wouldn't jam because their is a higher chance he will call by only making it 100 more.

I will over limp on occasion but mostly, I am raising preflop. I found out later that he is a dealer at my regular casino but I only play PLO there and as a short stacker mostly. He told me that he has dealt to me for 5 years. I guess all white guys look the same.

To this point (less than 2 hours in), I have doubled through with a set vs combo draw and haven't shown any bluffs. I cbet according to the CLP matrix, so in these types of games I will not cbet very often and when I do multiway, I almost always have it.

Nobody is advocating a fold here?

What hands would SB assuming he is halfway competent play this way pre-flop and on the flop and leading out this turn? I can't see any flushes we beat and his line looks like a flush. Is he calling pre with 34c? T7c? Is he calling pre with 79? His flop and turn play is bizarre for AcJx or KcJx.

If we are not even going to consider folding here, all-in is the only play. The only possible hands we want V to have are AcJx or KcJx type hands and exactly 79 and a shove is correct against that range.

Aggro fish betting into you? Either call and call any river, or raise AI, pretty standard play, pot is big enough to not really think too hard about this hand.

It's not 100% clear, but I think aggro fish is the ss who shoved the flop. The V who called the pf raise, check called the flop bet, then led into strength when the flush hit the turn is described as "observant and quiet".

Didn't notice that part, got confused about who was who. Definitely a tough spot. I guess the question I would ask myself is, does Villain jam every river with his non flush/str8 hands? Could he be betting with AcJx or 88/55? Limited information on this villain usually results me stacking off in this spot simply because of pot odds. I look for clearer situations if I want to think about folding a J high flush with 3 flush on board, especially at these stakes. I think a call on the turn might lead to a better decision on the river potentially saving you the remaining $130.

Really hate our raise preflop with loose guy on the Button, who is gonna call and create the train of callers. Your game plays totally different than mine if the limpers fold after 2 coldcallers. Anyhoo, result still sucks, as we're in a handcuffed bloated pot with lol SPRs of 3.5 and 1 and OOP to one of the players with J high. We're much better off overlimping here, imo (although at most tables I'd fold) and raising just seems flat out horrible to me in these conditions.

Not loving that SB called, but with this pot size and our equity I just jam at this point on the flop. What was our thinking on flatting?

I'm trying to figure out what we beat on the turn in a protected pot, but I'm also trying to figure out how we can possibly fold at any point with just 1/2 PSB left. I'm probably just shoving and lying in the bed I made preflop as punishment.

Gpreflopissobad,imoG

I'm not sure but I don't think a raise shove from 40 to 50 is re-opening the action. So shoving flop wouldn't be an option...

I come over the top OTF here given we have top pair, flush draw AND BD double gutter equity. JUst GII there IMO.

AP, I think I just call turn and see what V does on river. IF he checks we can v-bet and if he shoves we can evaluate.

Dnegs of 1/3 yikes. Hand is obvious on the turn, shove it in . There was almost no turn card we could be folding given stack sizes and pot size.

With an agro fish on the button fold pre or limp.

Can't come over the top on flop because the shove was less than a minraise.

Turn I would just shove as played, the effective SPR is very low at this point and I don't want V to draw profitably with a high club. I have no idea what V is doing betting like 1/4 pot, it seems dumb but very nutted. You're in too deep now to do anything but go with your flush.

Folding pre seems way too nitty given dynamics. I think limping along is best, especially since I don't want to give the chance for a loose and somewhat maniacal player to ram in his 23 bb stack pre when we have a hand like J9s.

As played, we have flopped the world and then some. Plus, there's a loose dude that loves to jam w/ just $50 left! We could bet $25. If this guy jams it, it's a full raise. So I'd be curious as to whether anyone else here is in the camp of betting 25 and isolating this guy if he goes all in (and take our pair of jacks to showdown immediately)?

As played, I assume villain did jam his last 50 in and the action wasn't reopened, and now SB is donking. Seems like a pretty easy call and re-evaluate river. Sucks it's a low club as we really aren't beating any flushes in villain's range here unless he flats 43cc / T7cc. But this player type will also show up w/ like AcJ, KcJ, 86s, etc, and be trying to avoid check check on the turn. So I call. And I call a blank river. If he has a bigger flush, NH gg.

If we're are going to get it in, then get it in now better than later. AcQc-AcTc, KcQc-KcTc, QcJc-QcTc and JcTc beats us while we beat only Jc7c(assuming V would call with Jc7c) and 4c3c, all in terms of flushes. It feels unlikely that V have any set to the TURN, though some 5 outer pairs did turn 2 pair such as 86s, 65s totalling 6 combos. Of course though V might have TP hands such as AJo(assumption that V will call with Broadway offsuits), JTs-J9s(no club flushes). In total we beat about 29 combos while only 9 combo of flush beats us.
Close both eyes say a prayer and shove it in(lol)

Ps, there are also made straights, 4 combos of 97s(if V would even call with 97s OOP)(understanding V's preflop calling ranges in different positions would help alot, I don't say...)