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turn decision?2-5 live turn decision?2-5 live

09-25-2013 , 06:08 PM
villian loose calling station she had shown up raising k7s and 45s utg before,
hero 150bb
villian 200bb
utg she 7x everyone folds to me in bb i have ako
dont remember her ever using this huge preflop sizing before so alarm bells go off
i flat,flops comes aa10 pot 70 i donk 30 she min raises to 60 i call
she has shown little to no aggression up to this point always callin hence the donk bet

pot=190 turn=q i check she bets 100 i call
pot=390 river=9
board=AA10Q9
i check call a 260 bet
im assuming nobody folds pre?
i think shes never bluffing river
entire hand a trainwreck?
sorry if this is written assways
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-25-2013 , 06:24 PM
Given your read, I still think that 3-betting for value is the best play preflop. You should never, ever, ever be considering folding here pre.

Dream flop. Against a player this loose, I'd consider this nearly the effective nuts. Obviously it's not, but pretty much. I'd be 3-betting the flop, expecting her to consider any Ax gold.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-25-2013 , 06:24 PM
lol at "sorry if this is written assways"

I probably 3bet this flop to gii v a worse Ax. If she 4bet shoves and you soul read her for AT/TT (flopped boat) then whatever I can't fold to this villain on this flop w my hand. But make her pay to pair her kicker, besides she probably thinks that Ax is the nuts.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-25-2013 , 06:33 PM
OMG this is a horrible spot to be in vs a donk villain we almost just can't find the fold button to. The only combo of hands we beat is AJ and a ******ed Ace rag suited combo.

I think in these spots we have to take a step back and evaluate just what flavor of donk we are dealing with.

Just because a donk is a calling station ****** doesn't mean they are spewtarded in all things, namely being aggressive.

If V was overvaluing hands and being aggressive with TPWK type hands then this is a crying call.

However, if V was just a station and check/calling TPWK hands and NOW all of a sudden she is firing flop/turn/river then as sick as it sounds we can fold here.

As played, we should have just repopped her on the flop for the very simple reason that a calling station is NEVER folding trip aces no matter what. Period. Doesn't matter if we are 300bb deep. If V had AQ or AJ or A9 in this spot we can raise and blast the pot on turn and shove river and she is never folding.

It just sucks we got super unlucky here.

So in summary, depends on what flavor of donk she is. If she had been driving action post flop with weak hands (like TPWK or baby flushes) then we make a crying call. If she had NOT been driving action with weak hands and rather was just a call down monkey then as sick as it sounds, we can find a fold on this river.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-25-2013 , 06:36 PM
With the open being so large pre flop there might be a reason to bit a bit worried but given the villain we are never folding here, and we should think strongly about 3! given how deep stacks are, and we want to get value from this loose player.

As played this flop is clearly a dream.
The idea of leading the flop is fine since we don't ever want it to check through, but when you are raised you should look to get it in somehow as soon as possible.

I would 3! the flop to $100-150.
When a passive player raises you they always have a hand they want to play, so we want to get as much value as we can.

On the turn and the river, the hand gets uglier, so check calling can be ok. But the real problem was not raising the flop so the rest of the hand is hard to diagnose.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-26-2013 , 09:25 AM
ok thanks, as for 3betting pre i honestly didnt consider it for a second i was so freaked out by this sizing if she flatted it would be a very simple get it all in on flop.
as played normally with this flop im fistpump getting it it but she was just so passive
she also was giving off huge tells super strong staring me in the eye,dancing in her seat honestly bloody dancing!
i found it hard to put her on an A considering 3 of them were accounted for
i knew she had a big hand because of her big raise pre,so couldnt figure out what big pair she played this way or aj aq ak
anyway she had 10,10 which is just so in line with that 7xutg pre
i was well embarrassed when i called that river,glad u guys are doing your dough also
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-26-2013 , 12:17 PM
Bet/3bet the flop is much better than flatting.

After just calling the flop, bet/folding the turn is possible against the described Villain type. She has essentially nothing in her preflop range that would raise our turn bet that we still beat. If she did have a hand we could beat, she would 95% just flat it on the turn (KK/AK/AJ?).

Never calling the river against described Villain type.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote
09-26-2013 , 12:31 PM
dont donk flop

as you said, her range is super wide here and a donk bet can fold out a lot of it. if she has an ace or a big pair, you'll get value anyway with a c/c or c/r. if she has KJ or something, I don't think you're getting value by donking. you're more likely to get anything from her by checking and letting her c-bet or leading turn if she catches up or thinks your range is weaker when you take a c/c flop, lead turn line than when you take a bet/bet line.
turn decision?2-5 live Quote

      
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