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Turn Decision Turn Decision

06-18-2018 , 10:14 AM
Game is $1/$2 $300 max. Hero's image is somewhat Laggy, but also he has lost a number of pots so he is in the game for $500 and not quite back to even. Two V's in this hand:

V1 (UTG, $450): MAWG, has not said a word in the two hours of play so far, has headphones on and seems relatively tight. Hasn't shown down more than a few times, but has had the goods when he did.

V2 (BTN, $185): YWG, backwards hat, has been running bad and seems frustrated but not quite tilting. Hero has seen him bet/fold probably 4x and has show top pair 3 of the 4 times while folding.

OTTH:

Hero is dealt 99 in MP. V1 limps, folded to Hero who raises to $15, folded to V2 OTB who calls, blinds fold and V1 calls. 3 way to the flop with $49 after max rake:

Flop ($43)

Q46

V1 checks. Hero likes this flop to c-bet as I could be good, get value from lower pocket pairs, and it is a mixed texture with few draws. Hero bets $30, button calls and V1 folds.

Turn ($103)

Q466

Hero decides to continue here as not much has changed and outside of Qx, Hero is likely still ahead now if he was ahead OTF. Hero bets $45, V2 thinks for 10 seconds and shoves for $140 total. $95/$288 for Hero to call (3-1).

Hero?
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 10:21 AM
I know you are trying to be a value hound lately, but I think the turn bet is too thin. No flush draw on the flop and limited straight draws, so what is the purpose of the turn bet? I want to find a way to take advantage of your LAG image and thin value is that way, but now even a naked 6 is ahead of you. Are we expecting some kind of hero call with 88/77/55?

I suspect some will even be critical of the flop bet but I'm okay with it for thin value against this V and your image .
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 10:27 AM
I don't see this ever a bluff other than an occasional 75s (which contradicts villain description) or a spazz play (which contradicts villain description). Seems like 6x targeting a Qx hand or slow played AA/KK. If he got one through, good for him.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913
I know you are trying to be a value hound lately, but I think the turn bet is too thin. No flush draw on the flop and limited straight draws, so what is the purpose of the turn bet? I want to find a way to take advantage of your LAG image and thin value is that way, but now even a naked 6 is ahead of you. Are we expecting some kind of hero call with 88/77/55?

I suspect some will even be critical of the flop bet but I'm okay with it for thin value against this V and your image .
So I just didn't think that V was really strong on the turn and that there was a very good chance he was floating the flop with a hand I beat or a weak Qx and that betting would likely get through. I also hate just meekly check/folding here as nothing changed on the turn unless he holds 6x, so my default is to treat my hand as a value hand until someone tells me otherwise.

But when he shoved, I thought it was a very strange bet. It made no sense to me for him to shove 6x or 44 there given his stack size. And given I had shown strength, I thought it would be very thin for him to shove Qx there (with the exception of AQ which I am pretty sure he 3! pre) either. With position, it would make more sense to allow me to continue on as there aren't that many scare cards on the river if he has a huge value hand so why not keep all my bluffs in and try to double through?

Again, I posted this one here to see if my thought process made any sense because I am not sure. So far it seems two of you think I played it poorly which is helpful.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 11:56 AM
Flop bet is fine as you can get value from lower pairs(A4/A6,56, 67, and some pp) and you also want to deny equity to hands like JT, KJ, KT, AT.

Turn I'm ok with betting if you are folding to the raise. I probably check this turn more than I bet it as most hands you beat are apt to check back and you can get value on the river.
Qx and 6x are obv betting and you can just fold.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorn7
So I just didn't think that V was really strong on the turn and that there was a very good chance he was floating the flop with a hand I beat or a weak Qx and that betting would likely get through. I also hate just meekly check/folding here as nothing changed on the turn unless he holds 6x, so my default is to treat my hand as a value hand until someone tells me otherwise.

But when he shoved, I thought it was a very strange bet. It made no sense to me for him to shove 6x or 44 there given his stack size. And given I had shown strength, I thought it would be very thin for him to shove Qx there (with the exception of AQ which I am pretty sure he 3! pre) either. With position, it would make more sense to allow me to continue on as there aren't that many scare cards on the river if he has a huge value hand so why not keep all my bluffs in and try to double through?

Again, I posted this one here to see if my thought process made any sense because I am not sure. So far it seems two of you think I played it poorly which is helpful.
Given your flop bet, I don't think there is anything wrong with barreling the turn.

Re: the bolded sentence above you may just be leveling yourself here. Maybe villain is good enough to call with 6x and frankly, that would be the right play. But given the stack sizes, it is at least equally as likely that he just figures he has the goods and you appear strong enough to call.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccoy87
Given your flop bet, I don't think there is anything wrong with barreling the turn.

Re: the bolded sentence above you may just be leveling yourself here. Maybe villain is good enough to call with 6x and frankly, that would be the right play. But given the stack sizes, it is at least equally as likely that he just figures he has the goods and you appear strong enough to call.
Yeah this is a good point. How I would have played it doesn't mean V does the same with a value hand that I am never folding with his stack. I need to stop putting myself in V's shoes.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
Flop bet is fine as you can get value from lower pairs(A4/A6,56, 67, and some pp) and you also want to deny equity to hands like JT, KJ, KT, AT.

Turn I'm ok with betting if you are folding to the raise. I probably check this turn more than I bet it as most hands you beat are apt to check back and you can get value on the river.
Qx and 6x are obv betting and you can just fold.
+1

Especially against a Villain who has repeatedly shown he's willing to lay down top pair to aggression. I think that also makes it easier to fold if he is finally able to not only make a stand but come over the top. I don't think the average player understands getting max value in position so I like your line with a fold to the jam, as now you only have a bluff catcher.
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 12:33 PM
Just check the turn. At best, it's razor thin value.

Think about getting some river value or snapping a bluff (although tbh, I would still want a slightly better read before bluffcatching a blank river)
Turn Decision Quote
06-18-2018 , 02:00 PM
Fine until turn. Check. AP - fold.

Not enough info on the opponent, but he could be peeling another card off the flop with 76s/65s, hoping to pickup BD equity. Obviously, he's not folding a decent QX hand for 62 bbs.
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