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TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider?

07-17-2014 , 02:03 PM
Game: 1/2, Wednesday Evening 4:00 PM

Hero: Likely laggy image. I've limped in maybe 1 hand in 2+ hours. Raised every other. Very active on my button. Overall raising ~20% of hands, I showed down J9o that I raised otb and the table was a bit surprised at how loose I was opening there.

V1: Terribad rec player. Plays blackjack. Bought in for $100, lost it, bought in for $200 and now down to $65 remaining. Will likely call off with any piece of the board for 1 street. Has folded flush draws getting decent (2.75:1) odds on the turn when there was still significant money behind.

V2: Nothing too notable about him. Bought in short stacked for $100 earlier, and has raised 1 hand and limp/called 1 on 30 minutes or so. Seems like your average 35yo rec slightly losing player. $95

Pretty simple spot, I'm just never really sure what do:

Hand:
4 limps around the table.
Hero raises the BB to $15 with TT
V1 calls from the hj
V2 calls from the btn

Flop ($43): QJ9
Hero?

I'm never folding.
I just can't decide if I should be betting out and hoping that I can get JX type hands to fold, or check/calling and hoping they spaz with who knows what. Or does it just not matter?
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 02:15 PM
I think it is perhaps possible that you are over-valuing this hand a bit. I mean, I think that given the stack sizes, and the way it would help our image, it's not bad to bet/get it in, but if we check and V2 jams, don't we have to fold?

I don't think you can play this hand as a bluff catcher. If these guys are going to "spaz", as you put it, their range for doing that includes hands like KJ/JT/etc. that you really don't want to see.

If you're going to play this hand as though it is strong, I think you have to play aggressively. I would not mind betting and getting 2 folds in this spot.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 03:49 PM
I don't understand why you are never folding on this board, even against short stacks.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:06 PM
Ck decide/call most flop bets
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindPokerAllDay
I don't understand why you are never folding on this board, even against short stacks.
Becuase we've got a PSB behind, and against most of the ranges that I ran we have more than 33% equity in the hand.

And I feel like if they ever call with something like T9s or 98s (which I 100% think that V1 will) given their stack sizes they will likely gii on this flop and it would a disaster to fold against those hands.

But maybe I am assigning bad ranges.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:32 PM
check/call. Shove and b/c both narrow the ranges you're getting it in with pretty significantly, and there are only 7 bad turn cards if it checks thru.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:35 PM
So we have a SPR of ~1 against the overly careful guy, and ~2 against the other. So you can certainly fold to a bet. And a bet here is rarely a semi bluff since you have 2 tens in your hand. I'd C/eval OTF.
Also OP, your game seems to be very aggressive from EP. Not that raising 1010 from the blinds is usually a bad move, but at these stakes and with so many smallish stacks you're gonna get into a ton of sticky spots playing this way. And you're PF raise is very often just gonna either take down the little pot or be up against multiple Vs with a hand that hates most flops. When I played 1/2nl my strat was largely an attempt to beat the relatively huge rake at these game, which was capped at $7 in a $50 pot. So I raised large (which you seem to do), but generally only aggressively played from position. In short I didn't try to take down the small-med sized pots through aggression with marginal holdings. All games are different, but the biggest leak in most 1/2nl players' style is that they call too much PF and post. You're style doesn't seem to exploit this. But just my 2 cents.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:42 PM
I'm with OP. This is unfoldable otf. It is not necessarily unfoldable later on if the flop checks thru.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 04:47 PM
$20 pre. $15 is begging to get called if four spots if the first limper calls. As played check flop and reevaluate. Probably check call, but folding to a lot of action. The problem with your hand is that you're probably behind on flop and a T gives someone else a straight a lot.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshady1999
$20 pre. $15 is begging to get called if four spots if the first limper calls. As played check flop and reevaluate. Probably check call, but folding to a lot of action. The problem with your hand is that you're probably behind on flop and a T gives someone else a straight a lot.
Good point. I like a raise with 1010 from the blinds if it's sized more like an almost 2x pot squeeze, rather than a normal open.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:16 PM
If you think the button is likely to bet if checked to I like a check-raise, otherwise bet. We have a ton of equity and we could get worse draws to call and better made hands to fold.

I really dislike a check-call; way to passive.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 06:26 PM
I think our hand has good enough equity and there is already enough in the pot to justify getting it in here. Any fold equity we pick up is a bonus. But if either villain turns up AQ and says I am not folding, we are still mathematically supposed to get it in here.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote
07-17-2014 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzthetaxman
I think our hand has good enough equity and there is already enough in the pot to justify getting it in here. Any fold equity we pick up is a bonus. But if either villain turns up AQ and says I am not folding, we are still mathematically supposed to get it in here.
This is false in the case of V2.
TT OOP on a decent flop, gii or ck/call to keep their ranges wider? Quote

      
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