2/2, standard pfr is 15..the whole table revolves around this lagtard who opens like 80-90% of his hands, double barrel is close to 100%, only notice that he will think longer on the third barrel..Villain fold to 3bet is non existent..

otth

eff stack is 350bb (700)

lag raise to 15 in mp, one passive guy calls, folded to me in the sb with TT...I elect to complete..
Flop:673r - i check, aggro monkey bet 30 into 45, passive guy calls..Hero??

I feel i could call or c/r here...Call to keep lagtard continue barreling his air but that puts me in a very tough spot on the turn, since he's barreling any turn..

raising will keep lagtard honest, unless he decides to make a play here...if he decides to fold than its pretty standard against passive guy, bet/fold, bet/fold..however if lagtard choose to call here, i would be in a terrible spot with a marginal hand oop..

3b pre unless your plan is to call down almost any runout

Seems obvious to me? Fake-tank c/c with the intention of c/c any turn and any river (excepting ridiculous overbets). If you want to go for style points, otr, throw out a meek-looking blocking bet to induce a bluff-raise, which you snap-call, GG

3b pre with TT?? villain fold to 3b is nonexistent....i end up playing a big pot oop with a marginal hand...what if the board is AQ3, cf?

Yes, it's fine to check/fold, bet/fold, or bet/evaluate.

There is more value in 3-betting in this spot than to bluff catching 3 streets. Plus you can always switch gear and play bluff catching.

Disagree.

I'm sure it holds true for the levels you play at, sir, but down here in the doldrums, with this sort of an aggro-fish and we are OOP, c/c 3 streets is by far the way to go (with some hero folds along the way). The guy will spew with the betting lead.

Are you willing to call down on any board texture? What kind of texture will you consider folding?

When you said it's "by far the way to go," what is your basis of how others are worse?

Idea behind 3betting is that we have the opportunity to force V to give up his equity, passively calling does not.

Given that we are also out of position, we are giving V the opportunity to fully realize his equity, and our hand unimproved is weak enough to carry quite a bit of RIO.

Without better read, I rather take the aggressive route with TT.

Personally, against this specific archetype of opponent, I will c/c most all rag board + 1 overcard combos, and conversely, either c/f ridiculous boards (such as 2 overs+monotone with a suit I don't have), or donk out 2 streets strongly on boards that suck for 1010. All the while checking for physical tells. I don't see us getting a whole lot of value by 3-betting this guy OOP with sh*tty jacks...we're basically turning our value hand into a bluff. What do we want, the pre 3-bet money, then a fold otf? But what do I know? Why is 3-betting here, against this specific dude, a better play?

In other words:

-Check/call all the favorable boards and let V to continue with his aggression.

-Bet/fold all the non-favorable boards when you are likely behind.

Given that's your approach post-flop, I do not understand why you would be against 3-betting pre. You get to be aggressive when you are ahead rather than behind of V's range.

Biggest cop-out of live poker players. Play bad and excuse it with magical non-existing reads.

How is 3-betting against a wide range turning our value hand into bluff? Please do not ramble with non-sense when you do not understand the concept of merging.

3betting is clearly for value and V is never folding better than TT, so there is no intention to bluff.

Who says we want to fold river?

And folding is fine if action and texture make sense. Maybe your problem is that you think showing down is always best.

Top reason: because there is money in the pot and we have a strong hand.

Otr = otf, which I corrected

You're slamming making live reads? Well EFF your dirty online game, with your cheating and dishonorable datamining. The live game is the game. The online game is being a sh*tty lawyer. Should have went to school and got your own practice, bro. Besides, you're a live player that is just talking sh*t with a comment like that.

You're overestimating your opponent here. He's going to spew with the lead. Live reads are real, combined with sizing tells. Merging our range? EFF that. There is no HUD here. We're OOP. If we're not folding out JJ+ with our 3-bet, why the hell would we expect to fold out a better hand with a C-bet otf in this spot? We're turning 1010 into a bluff. You want to bomb it 3 streets to fold out TP A 5 kicker? In that case, we look say stronger donking into him for 3 streets (as I suggested) after flatting him. You make more $ than me at at poker, fine, but don't expect to come in here, talking live 1-2 specific, and expect to half-ass it and outclass me.

Furthermore, you are actually agreeing to the idea of 3-betting pre, but you are subconsciously more comfortable to do so after seeing the flop.

So if you are check/calling most rag board, you must believe that TT is ahead of V's range pre-flop.

Crazy part of your thinking is that you believe you're ahead of V's range pre, and yet you are more willing to actively putting money in the pot when you sense that you're beat.

I tried to figure out how that rationale works, but I struggled to do so. Perhaps someone else has an idea?

Yah yah, pull out the evasive maneuvers!

We control the size of the pot by flatting, and as at this level, this cat will not be used to dealing with donk bombs on multiple streets, we will get more FE by flatting first.

Of course 1010 crushes his range. But he's so much more apt to spew after we check then he is to call our lead!

You're tired, you had a long day, get some rest, bring your A-game tomorrow.

Wow, I was quite gentle and didn't expect true color this quickly.

I have spent quite a bit of time studying live reads, both by reading books and actively tallying regulars. However, my credential is besides the point in this context, because...

OP provided no physical reads.

But I am sure you will argue that you are a great tell reader, even though most people who are great tell readers understand the importance of correlation.

Please elaborate how I am overestimating my opponent, because I do not think my words had expressed that.

Keep repeating they're real won't make them effective. And yes, they are real - I do not refute that people give out reads, but that's like my pointing out that today is the first day of spring.

I don't see how merging has anything to do with HUD, but clearly you don't understand it even though you were the one that said we're turning our hand into bluff.

Who says we're expecting to fold out a better hand? Why can't we bet for value on the flop?

Nope.

Actually I am the one putting in real effort with real reference to real ideas. See what I did there? I used the word real three times.

Sounds like a great reason to 3b pre. If the board is AQ3, you play some poker.

No, it was more of a pick-n-roll followed by a statue of liberty.

Actually if you read the OP carefully, V will bet and double barrel close to 100%. So checking is the furthest from controlling the pot. You do not have control of pot.

FWIW, it's than.

Yes, he's likely to spew, but like I said, TT is not strong enough OOP to play bluff catcher. In most instances, TT becomes a RIO hand.

I am an advocate of improving one's C game.

3b pre dude. you have the ****ing nuts against his range.

the problem with this hand - and most of the responses - is that they are playing this hand headsup. there's a third player in the hand who is passive. what exactly passive means in this context, i can't be sure of since OP focused on the aggro monkey.

Richard Parker's analysis is pretty spot on.

Also, this board hits the passive guy's range pretty hard. When he calls the $30 on the flop, that raises red flags. Passive guys don't always 3-bet JJ or QQ and he could be playing the aggro monkey the same way you are.

I think the point was to look for betting patterns, tells and telegraphs (in that order). Personally, it adds about 15-20% to my game, which is huge. The OP stopped at noting "lagtard" and not folding preflop. That says to me that the OP needs to be more observant.

As to the sharp response you got from Eden, I was annoyed by your initial response as well. I think it was too sharp. Still, I read on and I get your point. Perhaps the way you dissect a post to reply is what does it?

That is a very good point! But then, I'm not sure I want pot control in this spot. I'm more concerned with the 3rd player. I would prefer it head up.

What I want is to drive him out, or have a better idea of his range. The best way to do that is to make a weak flop bet with the TT to get the "lagtard" to raise. Then reevaluate when the action gets back to me on the flop, or the turn.

Interesting perspective. Consider however, that it is more difficult to do that when you piss someone off.

Hey guys thanks for the responses, I do actually believe now that 3betting hand is a better option, prolly a higher variance one though...

AP, i called the flop, Turn is a 9, check to lagtard who bets pot size, about 130 into 135, passive guy folds, I think this is pretty much a fold here..

For the record, I posted one thread on this site last year, and you showed up and broke my balls, so I know exactly who you are, in this context.

Flatting allows us *some* control of the *size* of the pot, which is what I said. You're breaking balls and playing at semantics. And I know where it's appropriate to use "then" and "than". Your ball-breaking is what is at a " C" level, and needs improvement.

Re: third guy in the pot

You're right, I completely forgot about that guy, and changes the spot.

Third guy notwithstanding, I like c/c with 1010 for the reasons I stated. At higher levels and against the typical Vs that play them, I'm sure 3-betting for the reasons you guys state is superior, but against this spew-monkey, I'm bracing myself and calling from OOP.

Straightforward 3bet pre-flop, since he will be calling his entire range, which you're crushing. On the flop, and onwards, play some poker.

As played, why would you ever want to fold the turn? He's opening 80–90% of his hands and double barreling close to 100%, and your TT is an overpair for Pete's sake. Call ldo.

3 bet pre for sure. Dreams cenario, somebody that calls all 3bets.

AP call turn and evaluate river.

Given his description with the passive player out I dont see why you shouldnt be ahead.

He bets pot size on turn, leaving behind a river shove..If I were to call the turn I'm only praying that he will check the river for a showdown...that puts me in a super terrible guessing game spot isn't it?

While you are way ahead of his range pre, taking a more aggressive line by 3-betting does not maximize your EV. Yes, he will call pre, but even the maniac will let go of his air hands under too much pressure. 3-betting here is a formula for winning a small pot.

Far more to be made via a rope-a-dope strategy. I'm calling pre..X/C flop. X/C this turn. Reevaluate on river.