Folding feels nitty, and maybe I'm being results oriented given how things played out, but the early raise from a tight player (a tight player who limps some of his hand even) and a lot of indications that the pot is going to go multiway, I do want to fold. If we do raise, I think $70 is too small given how much money is already in the pot.

Grunch,

First, if you don't mind, please number villains in clockwise order (!! Am I being to nitty?)

Second, I really don't like the preflop move. It's pretty transparent to a decent player and when you say a tight player opens for 20, you're probably not going to get him to fold (if he did he'd be hugely exploitable).

Generally bad to try and ISO a player into strength. Better to flat and wait for the flop, and look for a better opportunity to isolate.

That is, ideally you want to be isolating weak players when other players are not so obviously showing strength.

The problem is here you have now bloated the pot out of proportion and need to hit the flop pretty hard to continue.

Having read some comments, I do agree that folding PF is probably best, but a call isn't awful.

On turn - hmmm bad lag called our flop bet fast - could be anything from a pocket pair to trip jacks, LOL.

I'd say check back this turn, and call any river bet. You get money from bad lags by trapping with hands like top pair. But even bad lags will fold if they think they are beat and can't get you to lay down.

ck/cl
shove river if he checks

Grunch

Sugar House is a crazy crazy room. There is a good chance this table full of degenerates has been playing since the night before, likely drinking, and are all mostly stuck looking to get it back.

V3 is probably isolating with 88+, AT+, KJ+. There is $16 dead money when it gets to him. His raise is too small so I will assume not a great player.

I like the isolation, I would have gone a little bigger to $80 since there is 1 caller plus two $6 straddles already. Now I am going way against the grain here -- this flop sucks, but I have played in this exact game and these people are fit or fold monkeys that will call $70 and check fold if they don't hit their set. Jx is a very small portion of their calling ranges here, so I would probably c-bet $175 and shut down it called, but expect to take it down against everything but Jx.

Break even on $175 is 38% and if we get to see turn and river we are 25% to improve vs. a PP if called.

um...

Seems pretty straightforward to me:

"Expect to take it down vs. everything but Jx, *BUT IF a PP GETS STICKY (unlikely),* we'll still end up ahead 25% of the time."

"2.5-5% of the time, we'll suck out."

Greeaaatttt. So pound it, what the hell.

Is there a point you are trying to make or do you just always nitpick mobile responses that don't spell everything out?

So it seems like I bet smaller than even the people advocating a bet would have done... I figured v2/v3 would be pretty fit/fold in this spot, regardless of my bet sizing as long as it looked like a 'big' bet to them, and v1 had to worry about the other two jamming behind him so he couldn't float as wide. But I may have been too optimistic about v1's positional awareness in this spot.

Obviously I got lucky on the turn with the best card possible coming, making it a pretty easy check/call imo, but if the turn was a blank, are we ever jamming into v1 here, hoping he doesn't have Jx and folds 88-TT/possible AK, or should I just check/fold turn and give up.

Sure, I have made two points:

1. Your logic in the post I first replied to was inconsistent.

2. Your "defense" is that you were discussing an essentially irrelevant scenario--the unlikely event that we get called by a PP and make an unlikely suck out.

?

no

i wouldn't call it so much a "defense" as much as repeating what he initially said since you took an unknown (and incorrect) issue with it

Well if he's got Jx you really stepped in it now and have no choice but to get in with your now TPTK.

I think I check my whole range on this flop as another poster said.

Results, even though they aren't too important. I felt like pre/flop were where the large decision points were. I'm also curious what people would have done on non Q/A turns.