Haha whatever. i knew what you were getting at. Even if some 2/5 players are call stations you can use that to your advantage.

Im talking about 10-12 hour sessions 3-4 times a week at 20BBs/hr, and being consistent in winning sessions. Is that really unheard of for an intelligent poker pro at 2/5?

No losing sessions in 18 months itt. GG's gimmick?

Those days are long over for me. I'm rocking old man nit single digit winrates now.

Ganditwas23straightwinningmonths,getitright,fool!G

Yes. It's unheard of. Please take this conversation to BW&F, and don't post about it 'til you've read that thread. Further comments on winrates and variance ITT will be deleted.

lol people still think like this??

+1

+1 again

But these are different things DUCY?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL is this Cali?

I have a played a lot of poker most of my life and am now in my 70's. Nearly all of my exerience in the last 25 years has been playing LH and NLH. I moved to LV in 2005, and since then have been playing 1/2 and 1/3 NLH Casino live, about 100 hours a month and about 30-40 hours a month online in the $50 and $100 NL games at WSOP (about the only place you can play online if you live in Nevada).

I have accurate records going back to 1990. (so I "know where I am at" in both LH and NL.

If you don't have accurate records for at least 2500 hours, any numbers you do have for a win rate may not be reliable, YOU MUST KEEP RECORDS. Amazingly, it seems there are many more players who don't keep accurate records, than those who do, even those who play every day!

If I were to pick one thing that has saved by butt over the years, it has been using record keeping softwawre that includes a management tool, that calculates your risk of ruin. The one I use (I am new to twoplsutwo so dont know if the rules allow me to mention the name of the software), lets you know what your risk of ruin is vs a given size bankroll; after plugging in your standad deviation, monthly expenses, hourly winrate-monthly hours.

I want my risk of ruin to be 1% or less, so I know what my bank roll and win rate have to be to achieve that. If you have outside income, (in my case SS), Subtract that from your monthly nut, this is the "real number" that has to come from poker each month.

Assuming you are a winning player with a solid winrate proven over time, it is easy to manipulate the other numbers and come up with how much time you need to spend at the tablles, what size game you belong in etc.

I hope there are those of you out there who find this information helpful.

bamboo

So if your risk of ruin is too big, just get more money so it's lower?

Thats one solution-also
Play more hours
Lower your expenses
Increase your win rate by improving your play
I would have to know more about your situation in order to be really helpful

:thumbsup:

Your records would be one of the most valuable resources in this thread (if you are willing to share them?)

Stuff like WR, downswings, standard deviation of results. Any trend over the years, etc?

interested to know the software bamboo uses.

or lower the stakes you play (obv)

Can't always just drop down. May need to play a bigger game to have any shot at earning enough money to pay your monthly expenses.

Technical nitpickiny point for sure, but good luck paying your 4500/mth expenses grinding 1/2 100bb cap would be the point.

I think sometimes moving down may actully increase your risk of ruin in a situation like the above.

Good luck doing anything with $4500 monthly expenses...

if you get to that crossroads with a 4500/month nut playing 2/5, it's time to look at the nut to remove some things because you're probably living beyond your means even as a 2/5 crusher...

and all i was doing was giving another possibility, i was not saying moving down is the only way to lower RoR.

As long as you don't benefit financially from the software, feel free to name it, talk it up, etc.. If you're an affiliate, just name it, disclose that and don't advertise, but answering questions would still be OK. If it starts to sound too much like advertising, I'll send you a PM.

Agreed!

I think I can speak on behalf of all LLSNL when I say that we would be VERY interested in seeing what a +25 year sample looks like

This actually brings up something I was wondering.

I'm a young guy with low expenses. As I get older my expenses will probably increase. If there are any posters who spend 4500ish/month and play live poker to earn that money please chime in and post stakes played an hours played.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

+1

+1

There's a Winrates thread, hopefully he can venture in there and post that stats, that would be awesome!

G6yearsamplesizeG

I would think there are probably three FT players that I know of in llsnl who may have expenses that high funded by poker and even they may not spend that much, even if they definitely win enough to cover that

And two of them play higher and the third chooses not to but does have a winning record at bigger games

If you expect to have expenses of $4500+ a month then poker is probaby not the best profession for you. I'd suggest investment banking, management consulting, or big law.

I'd suggest the MLB.

I'm starting to think that none of you fellas have to pay rent in NYC/DC/SF.

$4500/month sounds high, sure. But I used to pay $2000/month for a studio apartment in Brooklyn. Throw cable, utilities, car insurance, and health care on top of that and the numbers add up quick.

(though the point still stands that, no, I couldn't reliably cover that with poker every month.)

That's why when people ask where are good places to play poker for a living noone is saying NYC or San Francisco.

If my nut is $4500, I wouldn't have time for poker.