2/5

V is an older rec but has been straddling the BU and playing and raising a decent amount of hands. He hasn’t done much more than cbet flops in terms of showing aggression but small sample. SB is a loose passive fish.

V limps CO, I limp Kc7s BU cause I’m bad, we go 4 to the flop.

J73 two diamonds.

Xxx I $15 and SB and CO call.

Pot: $55

Turn 7x.

X, I $45 and just CO calls.

River Qx.

Pot: $145.

X, I $125, he rips $300.

I’m confused how I’m beat, but this is rarely a bluff. Seems at least plausible but admittedly a tad optimistic that he could have worse for value.

Yeah pf is bad, but you know that.

I'm calling river. He can have worse 7x like 87, 76, etc. Also he might spazz w/ QJ(I've seen it enough times).

You just can't ever fold here for that much more. Yeah sometimes you're beat when he has 33 or A7 but that's poker. This is a must call.

I don't like the checkraise, but you can't fold. If he has 33 or A7 or rivered you with Q7, so be it. Pot is $570 and it costs you $175 to call, for over 3-1 pot odds. You only have to be good about 24% of the time here. V will have a weaker 7x or QJ enough to make this a call. If V actually has you beat, you would think he would lead the river to avoid the hand being checked down. Based on the play up until the turn, you're likely hand is a jack with a big kicker. So V can't assume you will bet the river with a hand like AJ or KJ. That said, you will see 33 a lot here.

If you fold a hand this strong for this price, you are definitely exploitable and susceptible to being bluffed a lot. Sometimes you make a big hand and it loses to bigger hand. That's poker.

If you do call and lose, please take note that you lost $370 limping in with K7off. Try not to do that again, and just fold preflop

Can't fold without some specific read. Not likely a bluff but there are too many worse hands that can be raising, almost any 7X and a few others like QJ/AJ.

This sort of situation is one of the problems playing marginal hands against unknown opponents. Against a known nit you can fold, against a known lag/spazz it's an easy call. Against a generic unknown? Have to call but it's probably around break even with close to 2-1 odds.

this hand is a train wreck.

Fold preflop.

Check flop - you don't have a + it is 4 way and you have some SDV.

Turn is a range check - bottom and middle cards pairing are bad for your range. You are betting your hand OTT and not your range.

River is good - now call.

Dude, it's live 2/5 like 70bb deep vs a generic rec. One of this dudes most likely leaks is ck/call too much with tp and draws. Why wouldn't we explo vbet this spot when his range is full of Jx and fds?

I don’t see the merit in checking back trip 7’s when my opponents are going to call too wide on turn and river and not bluff enough on river when I check back turn. It’s also not likely he starts attacking my river ranges going forward because I don’t have enough check backs with trips.

BB was the only capable one in the hand and if I showed down my hand I would dial back the exploit flop bets when he’s in the hand and not bet a hand like middle pair that should theoretically be in my check range. I know that if I saw someone bet middle pair here 4 ways on the flop I would look to start attacking their flop bets so I’m cognizant of that.

Pre is bad regardless but this isn’t a 5/10 or T/20 game in terms of the flop and turn decisions. If I was playing this hand for some reason in a tough game, flop would be a high frequency check back normally for sure. Turn I would do a little less bluffing and thin value betting on this card and work in some checks with some 7x but I think we are still supposed to have some bets with trips right? We don’t go into complete shut down mode just because a card is bad for our range I would think.

We could also say what about the times we X back trip 7s OTT and Villain leads river with a Jack and then we raise for value and he puts us on a bluff and calls?

There's just way too many assumptions going on. I think deviating as a default reinforces a ton of bad habits that will catch up to you later on but that's just my opinion.

Interested in results.

It's 4 way to the flop. There aren't 4 way solvers yet but I'm pretty sure a 7 would never be bet OTF. OTT it's 3 way and then one of the worst cards in the deck comes for your range. That would always be a range check.

In fact - this would be a high frequency donk lead OTT for OOP players. That's usually a good indicator for when it should be a check back.

Your river strategy becomes higher EV by doing this. Now we can bluff raise river more because we have all 7x in our range.

This is why you don't limp pre, but you know that.

River is a must call. Your hand does not look like trips (or it shouldn't), so he could be bluffing or think his QJ or KdQd is golden. He might also have a worse 7.

If we check turn, sometimes he doesn’t bet river with a jack and we don’t get the shot at two streets of value, and sometimes a scare card comes in and we get no value. I’m on your side more than most when it comes to the value of knowing GTO for live poker but I think we disagree on how much we should be deviating.

I’ll post results at the end of today.

And yes we are in agreement about checking back a 7 in terms of GTO or tougher games. When I said high frequency check back I was guessing like 90%+ but it could of course be 100%.

Yeah and sometimes he hits his kicker and has top two and bets the river and we raise and he Hero calls. We could go around and around all day with different scenarios.

You need to have very good reasons to deviate from theory. The assumptions here are just "well he will call the turn a lot because FD/Jack are in his range and we don't want to lose value."

But you aren't thinking about the EV you are losing OTR by making your turn bet. Or the fact that a bet-bet-bet line will have much less $ in the pot than a bet-check-villain bet-hero raise 4x his bet line.

If you are assuming Villain calls OTT and OTR then I can assume Villain probes the river after the turn goes check-check.

Okay I'll check results later.

Hero called. V tables JJ...

pre is unforgivably bad, 0 point in analysing postflop

V limped JJ in the CO? Okay so he is a loose passive fish that we can over fold too when he raises postflop.

There are actually a decent amount of player's that play "tricky" preflop just so they can make plays like this.

They don't understand that the EV of raising JJ vs limping far outweighs any unicorn scenario's that may occur (see our HH).

Reminds me of a hand I played the other day the bb checked KK after one limpe and I limp the sb.