Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Tricky 3 way spot Tricky 3 way spot

01-10-2018 , 12:17 PM
I have a very drunk dude (V1) to my immediate left. He isn't playing aggressive-maniac style but he is in 75% of hands and taking stabs basically whenever it is checked to him. He has about $225.

Directly to his left is a bad tight player (V2). He is not playing a ton of pots. He is a passive older guy who doesn't seem to be thinking much beyond "I have a good hand/I don't have a good hand". He was running well earlier and was up to about 1k (It's a 1/2 game with a $200 max buy in.) Recently he has lost some pots and is sitting on about a $600 stack. He is not affected at all by his recent losses.

I have about $450 in front of me and would assume I have a "good player" image. I have shown down good hands, called down bluffs, and haven't really lost any sizeable pots. Against these two Villains I don't think my image matters much at all.

OTTH:

One limp to me. I raise to $12 in MP with JsJd. V1 and V2 are only callers.

Flop (~$40) 8h7h4c. I bet $25. Drunk guy snap raises to $50 and V2 calls. I already don't like this spot even though I am getting huge odds to call. Drunk guy hasn't raised a flop yet and its a min-raise from a bad player at 1/2 so I have to think he is pretty strong most of the time. V2 calling is also pretty interesting. I don't know if V2 is really aware of stack sizes, implied odds, etc. So I don't know if he is really just calling for a fourth of his effective stack with drunk guy with a draw or not. So far all I have really seen him do is call down with value and only raising with nut-type hands. I don't know exactly how he is viewing the drunk guy's play either. Is he playing his normal game or is he able to make a light call against the drunk guy - I don't know.

Anyway, I decide to just make the call. In my confusion I was actually considering raising. It is a draw heavy board but I just don't put V1 on a draw when he min-raises and then I have to worry about V2 as well. And, stack sizes are somewhat tricky to raise. If I raise to 150 I basically put V1 all in, if V2 calls we have a $500 pot to the turn and I have less than half pot behind. If I just jam I think I just get called by better and miss out on getting further value from draws on the turn.

Turn is a brick - offsuit 2. I check. Drunk dude jams for ~160. V2 thinks for 15 seconds and calls. Hero?

I was really unsure what to do on both flop and turn. I think it's at least somewhat reasonable to just make the exploitative fold on the flop (I don't think it's the best option though). I think calling is obviously fine for that price. I also think raising, however weird stack sizes may be can also be good. I can get heads up with the drunk dude and knock out draws from V2. During the hand I thought it was pretty likely that V2 flopped a made hand and was just letting the drunk dude throw money in the pot. V2's flatting scared me a lot and is probably the main reason I did not reraise the flop.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 12:48 PM
That's a tough one. Not sure I can fold to drunk guy on the flop, even with the other guy's call, but since he rarely raises, it might not be a bad idea. However, the flop is so draw heavy he could be raising with a ton of hands you are still ahead of and V2 could be calling with the same. Once you call the flop, I think you should call the turn. On river, I'll bet V2 checks a hand that you have beat and bets one that beats you.

I would not have minded a fold on the flop vs. these two with this board.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 02:46 PM
I actually think flop fold IS the best play here multi-way (HU probably not). The problem is that you are OOP, really have no way of improving unless it is runner runner to top boat or quads and you are more than likely going to face additional pressure on the turn (which is what happened). Even if you hit a Jack on the turn, it completes the OE str8 draw and if it is a heart the FD as well. With two villains seeming interested already, this is a MA/WB spot (marginally ahead/way behind).

For me, Fold >>Raise>>>>>>>>>>>>>>call.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 02:47 PM
Very easy fold OTT for me. Once V2 calls, I'd dump 2p and below, maybe mulling over 87 for a bit.

As for the flop, we're behind very frequently. I'd likely say to myself I should fold, but call anyways. Sometimes I find these minbets to be fairly polarizing, if not just nutted even from the described villain. He's responding to our aggression here, not our passivity, and V2 calling the 2bet sets off even more alarm bells. On this board though, it's feasible enough for someone to have some combos draws or pair+draw type hand & 9's/T's that calling needing 13% direct isn't the worst. Considering a raise after V2 calls just seems spewy.

As far as hand planning, if V1 is giving lots of action, I think we can get away with sizing even larger preflop.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 03:08 PM
Fold the flop. You are either a small favorite or a huge dog. There are so many hands beating JJ right now given the action.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 03:21 PM
I folded turn. River brick (if there are bricks in this spot). Drunk dude shows TT. Other V mucks. It was kind of tilting because I would have won >$400 but I think it's unreasonable to think I am ahead very often here. I don't know how V2 didn't have 1 pair beat and the drunk guy's raise made absolutely no sense - even for a dude that is slurring badly.

Even in hindsight I don't mind the fold - but it was such a weird spot I thought I would share.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 03:30 PM
I don't think anyone would blame you for folding. I've seen the best low stakes players I know fold the best hand. Not often, but it happens. It's the nature of the beast.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote
01-10-2018 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuneIt
I don't think anyone would blame you for folding. I've seen the best low stakes players I know fold the best hand. Not often, but it happens. It's the nature of the beast.
I would argue that the best players fold the best hand way more often than bad players do (prior to showdown). Your goal is never to win every pot nor the most pots. It is to avoid huge errors and trade small mistakes for big mistakes. Sometimes you can fold for most of the session, play 3 hands and go home a huge winner. It just all depends.
Tricky 3 way spot Quote

      
m