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trap LAG or defend my hand? trap LAG or defend my hand?

02-27-2016 , 10:23 AM
Hero is 30is white guy playing very snug for the last two hours since I sat down. (400)

V is a 20ish white guy who is TAG pre and very LAG post. (900)

After the flop he has been bombing away at boards where he has any piece and been getting there for the most part. he has been bluffing and semi bluffing if his opponents show any passiviity.

1/3

limp, limp, Hero on the button makes it 18 with AQ

only V in the BB calls.

(40)
AJ6

V takes a couple moments and checks
H checks behind, intending to trap, or play pot control versus this opponent

(40)
AJ6 4

V bets 20.

H considers raising to 80, but really doesn't have a plan of he is going to do if V calls, one of the two flushes hit the river, and then V makes a big river bet.

H calls.

(80)
AJ642

V bets 60 pretty quickly, really not looking at the board. smells like a bluff since he has so many missed flushes in his range and he bet so quickly, but the sizing is so valueish for his previous hand tendencies. I would have expected a bluff bet size to be 80 - 400. My image is very snug and my hand is underrepped.

H ??
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 10:36 AM
bet flop please

as played you have to call

your hand is underrepresented and he could be doing this with a weaker ace, a jack, or a missed flush draw

there are so many hands you beat but the value is too thin to be raising

call
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 10:40 AM
Call. I'd have probably c-bet most of my range on the flop but if the villain likes trying to steal pots from you you might have induced a few bets out of him with that check. I don't like raising turn there either, it would build too big of a pot with a vulnerable hand and make your decision on the river pretty tough.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 10:42 AM
Hand played backwards IMO. Bet flop. Eval if he raises at any point.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 12:38 PM
Trying to trap with your hand and that board is a crappy plan, but at least it is a plan. Follow through with it and call. Better idea was to bet the flop.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 01:01 PM
Having a plan of action against any opponent is good, and it's a good thing that you stuck with it. Will win you a lot of money on the way.

As for the hand though, this isn't the board to try to trap a guy. I'd bet. Like you said, if he has any piece of the board he is sticking around. It's kind of hard for him not to have some kind of piece of this board. Which would lead me to bet flop, bet turn, and probably call river donk bets on most runouts. Or just check back the river if it's checked to us.

As played, calling turn and just calling river seems fine enough. You trapped him. If he has KJ or Jx, you probably got the max from him and it sucks when we raise turn or river just to get 3bet and face a rough decision. Besides, we underrep our hand on a draw heavy flop. What kind of sense does our hand make to raise the turn, we only rep 44 at that point, and only just since it's borderline whether we're raising 44 preflop.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 10:15 PM
I disagree with everyone saying that this is a must bet spot on the flop. If villain is going to go nuts when we check back a somewhat drawy A-high board, then checking with the intention of calling down is a good plan.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-27-2016 , 11:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
V is a 20ish white guy who is TAG pre and very LAG post. (900)
Hey PFunk, what does it mean to be TAG preflop and LAG postflop? Are you saying his equity threshold for aggression is extremely low postflop (i.e., 3 to a str8 and bdfd) but his hole cards are going to be stronger than your average lag?
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-28-2016 , 12:00 AM
Call OTR pretty standard call.

If this is the type of v to bet out his entire range OTT and then again OTR this line isn't that bad given we induce a lot from his bluff range that he would prolly just fold to a flop cbet if he folds to a flop bet?. Given the board i think we can still get value from that part of his range OTF and on certain boards vs. this villain who opens wide & will bluff later in the hand i use this line too.

Having a plan for turn and river based on his tendencies and run outs is pretty important if you are trying this line tho.

We are never raising for value at any point in this hand we have to be ahead of his calling range and it's just too thin with 1pair.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-28-2016 , 01:54 AM
Call. You get to see his cards, as does everybody else. If he has you beat, he does not get to see your cards.

Nothing inherently wrong with not C-betting here to induce his bluffs, but once that starts, just call and don't raise.

After the showdown, make note of his actual strength and bet-sizing for future reference.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-28-2016 , 04:53 AM
Bet every street. As played you can't fold so call and expect to see some weird 2p.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-28-2016 , 07:44 AM
Easiest call of all time. Also lol at expecting bluff sizing to be 80-400
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-28-2016 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philepistemer
I disagree with everyone saying that this is a must bet spot on the flop. If villain is going to go nuts when we check back a somewhat drawy A-high board, then checking with the intention of calling down is a good plan.
We have a whole chunk of weaker hands to check back (Ax, Jx etc) and call twice with, but AQ should certainly not be included in that range.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsnapzbrah
Having a plan of action against any opponent is good, and it's a good thing that you stuck with it. Will win you a lot of money on the way.

As for the hand though, this isn't the board to try to trap a guy. I'd bet. Like you said, if he has any piece of the board he is sticking around. It's kind of hard for him not to have some kind of piece of this board. Which would lead me to bet flop, bet turn, and probably call river donk bets on most runouts. Or just check back the river if it's checked to us.

As played, calling turn and just calling river seems fine enough. You trapped him. If he has KJ or Jx, you probably got the max from him and it sucks when we raise turn or river just to get 3bet and face a rough decision. Besides, we underrep our hand on a draw heavy flop. What kind of sense does our hand make to raise the turn, we only rep 44 at that point, and only just since it's borderline whether we're raising 44 preflop.
maybe I did not make this clear in the OP, but he is bombing if he has any piece of the board when his opponents show passivity.

but if he is calling post flop, he has a much stronger range than if he is doing the betting
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philepistemer
I disagree with everyone saying that this is a must bet spot on the flop. If villain is going to go nuts when we check back a somewhat drawy A-high board, then checking with the intention of calling down is a good plan.
this is what I was thinking. Since he will bomb away with practically anything, but only calls when he actually has some equity, just check it to him everytime.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Hey PFunk, what does it mean to be TAG preflop and LAG postflop? Are you saying his equity threshold for aggression is extremely low postflop (i.e., 3 to a str8 and bdfd) but his hole cards are going to be stronger than your average lag?
it was more of just a general observation. I saw him limp with KJ off and then snap fold to a raise from the button pre. He kind of smiled and showed his hand. The button showed AK.

He also folded 33 UTG and his cards were exposed when he open folded and they happened to flip over.

Conversely, he was on the button in a 3 way hand with A2, and he bet on a 882 flop. boths V's called. turn 4, he bet again. both V's called. river 2, he bet valueish (little more than half pot on the river and he was called down by 99.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
maybe I did not make this clear in the OP, but he is bombing if he has any piece of the board when his opponents show passivity.

but if he is calling post flop, he has a much stronger range than if he is doing the betting
Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious
this is what I was thinking. Since he will bomb away with practically anything, but only calls when he actually has some equity, just check it to him everytime.
if this is the case river is a snap
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm81
Easiest call of all time. Also lol at expecting bluff sizing to be 80-400
why? saw him shove for 300 into a 120ish pot on the river. the board was A3342. His opponent flashed AQ (AK?) and he showed 66 for the bluff.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 12:25 PM
results:
Spoiler:

H called relatively quickly and V kinda shrugged and then showed 88.

He was kind of snarly and asked my why I didn't bet the flop. I told him that AJ got there on the flop and I didn't like it. And of course, I thought it was much more profitable to just call him down versus betting out. With my table image, he would have instamucked.

but back to the original point, when two flush draws get there on the turn, and we know that the V's range is super wide, how much of the time should we be raising the turn to protect our hand versus just sitting on one pair and making hero calls.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 02:17 PM
SPR is 10ish on the flop. Against ABC opponents, that leaves us just barely enough room to confidently bet/fold each street. But against this guy, I'm assuming we will have no confidence folding (and yet at the same time don't want to play for 130bb stacks either).

So I'd also check back the flop and call the turn, which has now all worked out perfectly by the river where we have an easy bluffcatching call (heck, Villain might even think he is simply value betting AT/etc.).

ETA: We just got $80 out of 3rd pair thanks to checking back the flop. I think when you mix in all the possible hands he could have on the flop (from ~nuttish, to very mediocre hands drawing to 2-5 outs, to decent draws, to complete air, with those hands being from most unlikely to most likely), I think this is a pretty good result to aim for all while not even coming close to putting a huge stack in an incredibly awkward spot against an opponent who is capable of putting us in that spot. Nicely played, imo.

Gnicehandifwecalledtheriver,imoG

Last edited by gobbledygeek; 02-29-2016 at 02:26 PM.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 02:23 PM
Hands that are strong enough to play for 3 streets of value, aren't strong enough to raise future streets when they get favorable runouts, and don't have any backup when the runout is unfavorable on a dynamic board generally play the worst for trapping.

You have a good exploitation plan, but not a good hand for pulling it with. Do this with any Jx. Do this with AA/JJ. Maybe mix in some of this with AxKs. Don't do this with dry AQ.

Then again, I never 6x the button, so maybe you got max value ...
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
02-29-2016 , 05:36 PM
I think checking flop on such a drawy board when you should be betting a huge part of your range is pretty bad because we get no value from gutterballs/backdoor draws/Jx/worse Ax. Just look at the turn - now the board has like 25 potentially bad river cards that will be harder to get a call from if you even feel comfortable betting. If river is K/T/spade/diamond/8/3/6 you're not going to love it especially if you get c/r, but if you bet the flop and turn you can decide what to do on river and given such a bricked river card, I don't think folding is an option if V bombs it after c/c twice.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spikeraw22
Hand played backwards IMO.
This is, of course, the best way to play vs a LAG.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote
03-01-2016 , 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsb
We have a whole chunk of weaker hands to check back (Ax, Jx etc) and call twice with, but AQ should certainly not be included in that range.
I agree that it is "bad" in some sense to check here, but OP had a read on villain and wanted to exploit him to the max. If the read had a legitimate basis, that's the better approach.
trap LAG or defend my hand? Quote

      
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