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TPTK OOP 4 to a flush TPTK OOP 4 to a flush

07-15-2015 , 01:21 PM
2/4, table is half loose/passive/weak post flop, or tight/passive. Villain in hand hasn't been at table long, he lost his first two 30bb buy-ins getting it in bad, and now has come back to the table with 75bb. I don't know much about him; he seems to be paying attention, is playing too loose preflop, is not terribly aggressive, does not seem to understand hand values very well.

My image is nitty, but most people, even though they realize I'm playing very tight, will give me action anyway because they like their hand. I've also been getting some more playable hands in the last 45 min, so my image may be loosening up a bit (not that it makes any difference, it doesn't).

I have AQcc in MP, 2 limpers to me, I make it 16, HJ CO and BTN call, limpers call. Stack sizes range from 40bb-70bb and more, I have 120bb and cover most villains.

Flop (80) Q74

Checks to me, while thinking about whether to c-bet I notice that everyone at the table checks there cards, which in my experience is a reliable indicator that they don't already have a flush. I lead 60, everyone folds except V on BTN, who calls.

I noticed that this V started to check his cards a few moments after everyone else, and though I can't give any real weight to it, I'm less confident now that he has a good diamond, and am not sure where I'm at or what he is capable of.
I didn't notice anything about the way he called, any kind of hesitation or etc., and failed to pay close attention to him throughout the rest of the hand (I don't know why, I guess I was not completely with it).

Turn (200) Q74T

Bad card, I think about 10 seconds and check, Villain hesitates about 5 seconds and checks behind.

River is a blank, I don't recall what it was.

I think about making a small bet, in the range of 90-100, but am scared of the board, have no idea what villain is up to, so I check. Villain bets 120 and I fold.

I'm not sure what else I could do in this spot, but after I check turn and river it's looking like a pretty safe spot to bluff if you're V.

So maybe this is kind of boring/standard, but would anyone have playing this differently? E.g., continue betting the turn, check turn and bet river when he checks behind, x/shove river are the only options I see. X/calling is out of the question once the 4th diamond hits. Though I would also be fine just x/folding the flop, in this case I expected everyone to my left to fold either now or to a barrel on a non-diamond turn.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 01:26 PM
First I would've made a bigger bet preflop. You already had two limpets so making it 4x BB just gives them "pot odds". Regardless of that I don't think villain folds for an extra 10 on top preflop.

I think you saved yourself money in this spot. What are you going to do with TPTK, a loose villain, and 4 to the flush, bet into it? That can't be a +ev play. What could he call with on the flop that doesn't include a diamond? No way he can call on the flop without a diamond in his hand. Everything beats you. I'm a newb but i would've played this the same way. I probably would've lost more money because I would've raised more preflop and this villain would've called anyway
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 01:36 PM
Pretty standard flop bet and x/f turn.

When V checks behind OTT, you can do two things on the river. You can turn your hand into a bluff or x/f.

You said he's gotten his money in bad before, so I can easily see him showing up with a 9 or j when he checks the turn, and thinks his flush is good when you check behind the river. Also those occasions where they turn the nuts and don't want to "scare you off" as they put it. I don't really expect V to be turning his hand into a bluff often here as he's likely also scared of the flush.

Since his range has a lot of medium flushes, I wouldn't suggest bluffing OTR, but if you're going to I think I'd prefer a shove rather then a ~120-150 size bet, because I don't think he's folding the 9 or J for anything less than a shove.

But it's just not a good bluffing spot IMO, check and hope he checks behind. Fold if he bets.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kler
I think about making a small bet, in the range of 90-100, but am scared of the board, have no idea what villain is up to, so I check. Villain bets 120 and I fold.

I'm not sure what else I could do in this spot, but after I check turn and river it's looking like a pretty safe spot to bluff if you're V.
You played the hand fine. Since you have a queen it makes somewhat more likely the Villain doesn't and he was on a flush draw.

If you have KK in this spot, that gives the Villain more queens and if you want to you could call on the river occasionally if you feel like people are bluff-happy.

If you fear being bluffed you can also check some flushes on the turn and river.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 03:35 PM
This is fairly standard. You played it fine. I might have put in a small bet on river, but he's never folding a diamond, so check/fold is good. BTW, I always check my cards when there is a flush on board -- whether I know I have the nut flush or no flush. This covers me for the times I can't quite remember
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
This is fairly standard. You played it fine. I might have put in a small bet on river, but he's never folding a diamond, so check/fold is good. BTW, I always check my cards when there is a flush on board -- whether I know I have the nut flush or no flush. This covers me for the times I can't quite remember
Don't bet small on the river unless it's as a bluff, and like I said I think too much of his range is snapping you off so you're much better off either checking or making a more convincing bluff. Terrible spot for an uber thin value bet.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 04:02 PM
I don't mean really small, just not 2/3 pot or so. Maybe 1/2 or a little less. Of course it's a bluff -- right? He's calling any bet with a decent diamond (possibly any diamond), so really no point. It's just to stop him from bluffing hero.

I probably wouldn't bother, though, because these guys will call down with 2d.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 04:21 PM
River is a x/f.

V has gotten his money in bad. V is stuck. V is probably tilted. Do not bluff these kinds of players.

Edit. Turn is also a x/f. Once the 4th diamond hits the board, I'm done with the hand.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote
07-15-2015 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javanewt
BTW, I always check my cards when there is a flush on board -- whether I know I have the nut flush or no flush. This covers me for the times I can't quite remember
That's funny I do the opposite, I always check my cards twice before the flop so I always know exactly what I have, and am sure to do it with pocket pairs as well when there's really no need (e.g. AA). Though the next time I flop a flush I might just check my cards if V is paying attention and aggressive. I can only think of a few people I play with though who might be ready barrel two streets with anything just because a V checked their cards on a 3 to a flush board. But really it's one of the most consistent live tells I've come across, I'll float/steal pots all the time based on it, though I have yet to have found a situation to bluff-3bet someone who I suspect of stealing for this reason.
TPTK OOP 4 to a flush Quote

      
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