Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10
Yeah, this seems like a terrible way to think about preflop for many reasons. For one thing, as bad as playing OOP is, it's seems even harder if you're limping everything and not narrowing down your opponents' ranges at all. Second, when it's marginal, you should prefer to play at a lower SPR OOP than IP. That said, it matters less here because even with the 3-bet multiway pot SPR=10, so a single-raised pot is still going to have a very large SPR. (I''m assuming this game doesn't have a ton of light three-betting.)
But the most important reason to raise pre is because our UTG range should crush the callers' range, so we want to get more money in good. Presumably at least hands like AQ and KQ will call us so AK is squarely in that range, and thus gets value from the weaker range.
Because either MP or MP2 is likely to call with hands we dominate. Indeed, in the hand, MP called pre.
Our speculative read is that the 3-bettor is straightforward. If we're right that he's straightforward 75% of the time and wrong 25%, our RIO are not bad at all. If we flop top pair and face substantial aggression, we fold. (I would probably check-call the flop to try to get him to bet JJ-QQ.) This might be a bad RIO situation OOP against a genuinely tricky player, but that's not our read.
In addition, I'll offer up another read: Many live players would never make it almost 5x our raise with AA or KK. It's a fine reraise size with the two cold-callers, but many live players telegraph when they want action. I wouldn't take this to the bank 100%, but I'd rate JJ and TT higher, never mind the card elimination.
Meanwhile, we're getting GREAT implied odds if one of the callers happens to have AQ or KQ and we both flop top pair.
On balance, IO are not great but we're skilled and can get away from hands so they're not terrible.
We're playing mostly for hand value, not to bluff. On some occasions we might decide to semibluff.
I guess you mean two aces to get paid off, but we have more outs to top pair. We can take lines that make it more likely lower pairs pay us off.
Certainly it does. See above; we should be able to stay out of trouble against this opponent but an AQ or KQ at SPR=2.5 isn't staying out of trouble.
I don't see MP2's stack size.
I agree for this reason.
I doubt you suck at deep stacks, but you almost certainly misplay other situations besides this one because you're so afraid of playing with deep stacks.
Truthfully, while I don't have a ton of experience playing this deep, most small stakes opponents are as terrified as stacking off 800x deep as you are. Avoiding stacking off with one pair is a good orientation that you seem to have down pat, but you can also play AK fairly confidently, betting at least two and often three streets as the preflop aggressor. Of course if they raise and you have no reason to think they're creative or wild, you fold. For all they know, you have a set. And mediocre players are more driven by fear of getting in over their heads than by thinking, "He has AK a lot more often than KK and will fold it if I apply pressure."
But hey, if Old Guy is good and correctly adopted the latter reasoning here, bully for him. On to the next hand.
I'll respond to some of these just in point form:
- is a preflop raise going to narrow down an opponents range when we're so deep?
- is a preflop raise (in EP to boot) more likely to narrow down our range (admittedly I guess this depend on our style, but having our range narrowed down and OOP deep is a horrible result)
- as you say, a raise won't be able to create a comfortable SPR to stack off to, so the drawbacks of having our range potentially exposed (again, admittedly dependent on our style) doesn't seem too worth it
- yeah, we'll miss some value from hitting 2 outers against dominated ranges (but we may also fold out a large part of those dominated ranges with a preflop raise)
- having to put in 15% of our stack (effective against the other guy) hoping to hit a potential 2 outer against a potentially dominated potential overcaller is meh, imo
- agreed that we're not going to get in too many difficult spots against this guy, even OOP
- however, in the game of RIO vs IO, compare what we lose vs what we make versus various hands he has, especially OOP (for example how much we lose on K high flops vs AA against how much we win vs QQ on those same K high flops); yeah, we're not going to hurp durp off our stack in the bad cases, but if it's negative overall then it's still not profitable
- and being OOP will make any moves we attempt to do postflop much more difficult to make (as we won't have the information of whether he is betting a street or not)
Git'snotagreatspot,imo,butwilllikelydependonhowawe someatpostflopyouareG