TPGK turned nut straight draw facing shove from tight player - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

TPGK turned nut straight draw facing shove from tight player

Post Reply Subscribe

...

06-14-2013 , 08:15 PM

Andnoel

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 587

Game: 2/5

Villain (BTN) is an 40-50 year old regular whom I tagged as tight and aggressive.

Hero is another regular who has a winning image at that table.

Effective Stack : ~100bb

PREFLOP:

Being only a 6 handed game at that moment, I decided to raise 3.5x K

UTG+1. inconsequential CO called, Villain (BTN) called, inconsequential BB completes.

FLOP (16bb): K

I cbet 12bb, only villain (BTN) called.

TURN(40bb): T

I cbet 22bb, villain instant shoved.

I tanked folded but what would you have done?

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:23 PM

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Bet/fold the turn. Nh.

Great bluffing card if you are villain vs you.

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:24 PM

DaYu

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,279

Very well played-- I would take the same line.

Your flop c-bet sizing is good; wet board multiway... we need to bet around 2/3 pot or more.

I think turn is a great spot for a b/f. Given your read of the gentleman who shoved, I really don't see how on earth we can call a shove here. This is never a bluff, so we need to beat his value range. And even his value range doesn't include hands like AK or KQ (I think he just flats those).

It's really not even close-- b/f all day long. 22bb into 40bb is good, given stack sizes.

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:28 PM

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

I may c/f turn.. depends what I think of villain's postflop tendencies

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:34 PM

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Chf the turn is bad imo

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:40 PM

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

the problem is it's pretty hard to extract more value on this turn from a truely tight player

depends on villain... I like checking more than betting if I think he tends to play straight forward here and check back =<2nd pair

If he telegraphs the strength of his hands w/betsizing I like checking even more

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:45 PM

Andnoel

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 587

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmay28

I do not like check folding.

By checking, we are effectively giving up on a hand that is currently top pair and with the nut straight draw. Our equity is good at that instant before he shoved. Checking loses value and folding after that could be a mistake because we are telling others we are effectively giving up.

Quote

06-14-2013 , 08:46 PM

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Wrong thinking imo, can get lots of value from QT, QJ etc...

Like chf this turn is purely bad imo

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

Quote

06-14-2013 , 09:01 PM

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andnoel

Checking loses value

I don't think it does really, vs a TIGHT range.

Quote:

and folding after that could be a mistake because we are telling others we are effectively giving up.

Who cares what others think. We're HU vs a nit with a marginal hand. Check/soulread turn is probably my preferred line.

Quote

06-14-2013 , 09:14 PM

#10

timmay28

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,845

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

Wrong thinking imo, can get lots of value from QT, QJ etc...

Like chf this turn is purely bad imo

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

bf < chf

c/c could be reasonable after soulread/betsize evaluation

Quote

06-14-2013 , 10:05 PM

#11

Andnoel

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 587

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmay28

I don't think it does really, vs a TIGHT range.

Who cares what others think. We're HU vs a nit with a marginal hand. Check/soulread turn is probably my preferred line.

haha... did i mention that he is a nit?

he is just a tight aggressive regular which doesn't mean he isnt capable of bluffing.

Quote

06-15-2013 , 03:24 AM

#12

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

Bet/fold the turn.

Why? For value? As a bluff?

Bet/fold turn takes a hand with ok showdown value perfectly good draw and turns it into dog ****. Super clear line is to check and keep villain's range open as well as ours.

It's not like he's going to fold AK or whatever.

Quote

06-15-2013 , 03:27 AM

#13

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by 11t

Wrong thinking imo, can get lots of value from QT, QJ etc...

Like chf this turn is purely bad imo

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

etc? what etc? That's an awfully narrow range you got there as a value bet when there are plenty of two pairs/straights just made, not to mention those hands can shove on your ass and you gotta fold. If it was some lappy guy sure but not a tag.

Quote

06-15-2013 , 03:31 AM

#14

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

I just don't expect an older player to raise as a bluff here almost ever and I don't expect him to have ak or ktos given description. KJ is possible but his most like hand is QJ

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

Quote

06-15-2013 , 08:59 AM

#15

Andnoel

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 587

After I folded my hand, I showed him the K that I folded. In return, he turned over his Ace of spade.

Hmmm, what could he has then?

AQs is the most likely hand I think he could this way?

Quote

06-15-2013 , 12:33 PM

#16

wewa925

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,039

AK more likely. Would he call 60 otf with one over and a gutshot(AQ)?

Quote

06-15-2013 , 01:24 PM

#17

11t

Bo Pelini's #1 Fan

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 31,420

Could have had AQss, but I really doubt it's ak, makes no sense to stack off on the 2nd worse turn card

Sent from my DROID X2 using 2+2 Forums

Quote

06-15-2013 , 01:43 PM

#18

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

I don't like a bet here. Seems like we're pulling a semi bluff that doesn't fold out hands that are beating TP2K

Quote

06-15-2013 , 01:47 PM

#19

ikestoys

banned

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 94,424

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rumor

I don't like a bet here. Seems like we're pulling a semi bluff that doesn't fold out hands that are beating TP2K

Exactly.

Quote

06-15-2013 , 11:02 PM

#20

Andnoel

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 587

If we are checking, we are definitely calling any turn bets he made?

And our line will be to check fold river?

hmmm... I think this line would make sense against a tight player.

But against a looser player, my default should be to bet/fold turn and then check/call river?

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...