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TP w/nut FD against tight player TP w/nut FD against tight player

08-24-2014 , 11:16 PM
Hi guys I played an interesting hand at a 2/5 NL table yesterday and would like some feedback on the way I approached the hand.

Starting stacks:
Hero: $800
Villain: $500

3 players limp including villain in LP. Hero opens to $30 in the CO holding A K the BTN calls and the 3 limpers call as well. Villain hesitated and tank called advising that he was priced in at this point.

The flop comes: K 6 T $157 in pot

It gets checked around to villain who bets $60. Villain is very tight passive. He limps very few hands and only opens QQ+ and when he does he opens for 3x with 2 limpers ahead. Now against such a villain I felt it would be best to 3 bet to $200 and isolate and then check it down since his range is very narrow and he most likely has me beat on the flop. I will obviously shove the turn or the river if a club hits.

Thanks for the feedback guys!
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-24-2014 , 11:38 PM
Looks like a WB/WA spot. I don't like your flop raise. Raising folds out worse and you're only getting called by hands you're behind.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-24-2014 , 11:42 PM
Ugh, I'm stupid. You really don't have any fold equity here. Raising is atrocious. Flat the nit's donk bet.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-24-2014 , 11:43 PM
Yeah I'm just calling here. The other two will leave, and I'd say KT, KJ, and KQ are all possibilities for V's hand, but you'll scare him off on the flop with a raise. He may even lead into you on the turn this way.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
Looks like a WB/WA spot. I don't like your flop raise. Raising folds out worse and you're only getting called by hands you're behind.
+1
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:20 AM
Im going to assume nitty Vs donking range is sets (discounting KK), two pair, made flushes, and prehaps some TP+Ft this D hands like KxQc or KxJco our equity is something like 60/40 or 1.5 to 1

We have to call 60 into about 210 or roughly 3.5 to 1 (this is assuming nobody calls behind) So this i gives us an EV of 102$

Things get a little interesting if we think about raising. What will Villian fold if we raise? What will he 3b? and what will he call?


somebody check my math.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGrind
Now against such a villain I felt it would be best to 3 bet to $200 and isolate and then check it down since his range is very narrow and he most likely has me beat on the flop. I will obviously shove the turn or the river if a club hits.

Thanks for the feedback guys!
wut??

how can you 3 bet the flop with only one bet ahead of you?

and why would you raise the one person OTT who you know has you beat? Are you raising as a bluff? repping nut clubs?

why would you think that anyone else is going to call the flop unless they have 2p+ on that board. With you holding the A, and V likely holding a set, unless someone flopped small clubs, no one likely has anything.

This is a super easy call and hope you hit.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:31 AM
Why raise if you think villain's range has you beat? Unless putting extra money in the pot knowing you're behind is just your thing, or whatever.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by de4df1sh
Im going to assume nitty Vs donking range is sets (discounting KK), two pair, made flushes, and prehaps some TP+Ft this D hands like KxQc or KxJco our equity is something like 60/40 or 1.5 to 1
I don't understand your point.

It would really really bad for him to bet with KxQc because he'd be forced to fold his second nut draw if someone raised. The only thing worse than him betting KxQc would be us raising to force him to fold it.

I don't think we're a favorite against Villain's range in this spot but it's clearly correct to call.

Raising turns our hand into a very bad bluff.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
Looks like a WB/WA spot. I don't like your flop raise. Raising folds out worse and you're only getting called by hands you're behind.
Don't think you understand what WB/WA means. We have solid equity against literally every hand.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBirdman
Don't think you understand what WB/WA means. We have solid equity against literally every hand.
Lol my exact thought. How are we WB?
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 01:40 AM
I gave villian a range of sets in 66/TT made flushes in 34cc/45cc/89cc/jqcc TPFD in KxQc and KxJc and two pairs in KxTx

Assuming he folds all TP+FD and stacks off with all sets, flushes and two pair he folds 4/20 combos so we have 20% FE

A shove looks something like this

EV={EV(fold)}*x+{EV(call)}*(1-x)

217x-89(x-1)

217(.2) - 89(1- .2)

217*.2 - 89*.8

43.4 - 71.2

EV= -27.8

Calling is optimal.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 08:27 AM
Smh

Last edited by wewa925; 08-25-2014 at 08:44 AM.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 08:37 AM
No one commented on villian donk betting into hero OTF for 60.00/157.00

You have NFD + TPTK, ****ing call man lol. He's a tight passive player he's probably milking a really sweet hand; 2pr - flush, but he's giving you perfect odds: call 60 to win 217.00

simplest math problem in the world. play your draw and hit that ****
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 08:41 AM
I would've liked a slightly higher pre raise. But as played, you can only call as you'll feel sick if he 4! And you have to either fold or Gii.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-25-2014 , 08:57 AM
Flat.
There's almost nothing he donks that we are ahead of.

Bink the turn, profit.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-27-2014 , 11:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wewa925
Looks like a WB/WA spot. I don't like your flop raise. Raising folds out worse and you're only getting called by hands you're behind.
Why flat and price in straight draws and allow one pair hands to improve cheaply? I raised to isolate the tight villain and continue this hand heads up.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-28-2014 , 01:15 AM
Also, I'm making this $40 preflop usually.
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote
08-28-2014 , 01:24 AM
I like a call...depending what he has previously donked with
TP w/nut FD against tight player Quote

      
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