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TP and NFD spot 2/5

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09-16-2013 , 05:26 PM

stackmemaybe

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,053

Played this hand last week at the casino. It was early in my session so I had almost no reads on my opponents. Its a simple spot but I was hesitating on what to do, which could mean there is a leak somewhere.

V1 ($500, ABC) opens to $20 from EP, V2 ($400, LAG reg on tilt) calls from MP, V3 ($400) calls from MP, V4 ($500, tight passive) calls from the BTN, hero ($500, tight image) calls from the BB with A

.

In game, I did not even think of 3betting b/c of V1 opening from EP with a fairly tight range. But it could be a good spot to iso V2 whos on tilt and it would look very strong. Maybe $165 or so?

Flop ($100): T

Hero checks, V1 checks, V2 checks, V3 bets $50, V4 folds, hero raise to $140, V1, 2 and 3 folds.

I dont know why but I was confused here between x/calling, donk betting and x/raising... All options seemed fine. I have no reads on V1 c-bet frequency.

X/calling looked hard to play as I might miss some value on the turn if V folds to a scare card when I lead or if I check and he checks back.

By x/raising I thought maybe I was making fold a lot of worst hands. I chose this option b/c I have a lot of equity.

As for donk betting, I'm not sure what range I would be doing this with. How should I proceed on the flop? Ty.

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09-16-2013 , 06:19 PM

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

fold pre

V3's range consists of flush, JJ, KhTx?

His hand is made here with a possible flush draw. So JhJx, KhTx, etc. With a naked FD that doesn't include Ah, he's probably checking and hoping for a free turn.

Against that range, c/r is fine. He'll flat with a lot of hands you're ahead of.

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09-16-2013 , 07:34 PM

stackmemaybe

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,053

Hmm I ran a few ranges on stove and pre looks like a fold indeed plus we are OOP. In game I called b/c of implied odds given that V2 is in the hand.

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09-16-2013 , 07:36 PM

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,074

Fold pf. Flop is fine.

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09-16-2013 , 08:06 PM

Zapp1e

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 38

Good call preflop. I'd bet something on the flop at least.

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09-16-2013 , 08:16 PM

Starpoker

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 594

Fold pre.

Post, I'm fine with your raise here as long as you don't do it too often. There is also an argument to be made for letting him in and hoping he has Kh/Qh and the heart comes. It has risks, but also upside.

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09-16-2013 , 08:25 PM

stackmemaybe

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starpoker

Post, I'm fine with your raise here as long as you don't do it too often.

What do you mean?

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09-16-2013 , 08:42 PM

Zapp1e

newbie

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 38

Quote:

Originally Posted by stackmemaybe

What do you mean?

Cause you have additional outs, like a heart. You do have top pair top kicker and the nut draw so raising is cool.

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09-16-2013 , 10:53 PM

17Squared

enthusiast

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 59

I think there is merit to donking out on flop, usually I wouldn't do this but people tend to play quite passive/scared in these large multiway raised pots and I could see this flop checking through often enough that you are missing value. There are so many draws out there you can get value out of, that will just take a free card if they get the chance. Plus I'd prefer to narrow the field down a bit anyway.

If you are pretty confident someone will bet the c/r line seems fine though.

Last edited by 17Squared; 09-16-2013 at 11:03 PM.

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09-16-2013 , 11:25 PM

#10

stackmemaybe

adept

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 1,053

Yeah its pretty dependent on whether the board will be checked around or not. If everyone checks and I turn the nuts I wont get much value by anything besides Kh and Qh.

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09-17-2013 , 07:54 AM

#11

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,251

As played, C/R seems better than leading into multiple opponents, especially given your image. You're more likely going to capture some value.

Pre - ez fold vs. ABC player range from EP. Also, oop.

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09-17-2013 , 08:01 AM

#12

mtagliaf

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 5,649

You have to weigh the profit you get from V2 against the money you lose to V1 in reverse IO hands (you probably don't check/fold on ace high boards).

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09-17-2013 , 10:58 AM

#13

SunChips

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 1,442

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke0424

If you are v3 in this pot, what hands do you flat with? And what is your plan on future streets?

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09-17-2013 , 02:28 PM

#14

IFuture

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 31

I'm curious as to why we want to c/r for value? The only hands I can see v3 calling or shoving to our raise is flushes and sets. (Which we are around 30/70 in equity) If v3 has Kh10x or Qh10x wouldn't it be better to call and allow both of us to turn our flush and then play for stacks. It seems like we are letting v3 play perfectly against us. Also if we are raising the flop and get called, what is our plan on non-heart turns? Are we betting for value again?

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09-17-2013 , 03:00 PM

#15

DreamIsDestiny

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 500

Fold or 3bet pre. Calling is by far the worst option. It's the definition of a spot you don't want to be in (OOP, bloated pot with hand that will often be RIO, dominated by EP opening range).

3bet is probably the most +EV play considering the dead monies and how our hand will play postflop in a hu pot. 165 is too big though. You're going to get 4bet by the opener some % of time and you're burning $50-60 when he does. I'd probably go 110-120.

I'm leading this flop. You can get worse hands and worse draws to call. C/r folds out most (maybe even all) of the hands you beat and puts you in a spot where you have to flip for a buy-in when someone 3bets you.

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