Nothing wrong with checking down and trying to get to showdown. What kills me about 2+2 is that instead of saying "I wouldve bet the flop, but as played I would do X"....you get

"not betting that flop is horrific" or
"betting the flop OR turn is a mistake multiway" or
"not betting this flop vs these players is a big mistake" or
"folding here for this price is a disaster"
"fold the turn"

Completely contradictory absolute statements. Clearly there is more than one way to play most hands. If I bet people say its horrible. If I check people say its horrible. Why is everyone so dead set that their way is the only way? Maybe some people should open their minds to other lines especially when I also hear so many people saying its impossible to beat the game for more than 8-10BBs/hr.

You should be betting this flop sometimes and checking it sometimes. The discussion should be about what to do based on what you already did....not about how you F'd the hand up already when its clear that checking or betting the flop are both fine.

I dont think you should be betting this flop 4 ways ever with our specific holding. I would only be betting maybe AK+(maybe KT if we got there somehow) and AxHH combos and QxHH combos.

Turn bet is defensible, but I think if you bet turn, it should be a b/f unless you have some super sick read that he is going to CRAI with semi bluffs as opposed to calling turn with them.

And this is coming from a person who thinks the majority of posters here have pretty terrible bet sizing and in general are too nitty.

Do you see my point though? You think I should never be betting this flop with AQ in this spot. Other people think I should always be betting this flop with my hand and checking is a terrible mistake.

Someone is wrong obviously.

The people advocating betting the flop are probably the people that cbet wayyyy too much and bet without figuring out what the bet accomplishes.

Again just my .02c, but considering we have Mid Pair, Back Door FD, 4 Outs to Nut Straight in a 4 way pot, I dont think we should be betting this flop often.

This is a discussion thread specifically because there are too many variables for simple, across-the-board, objective answers. This is not a solved game like chess.

The goal is to come out if this thread better than you went in. Even with conflicting opinions, that will happen if you take the knowledge from what people are saying. You should come here looking for a thought-process, not necessarily a solid answer. No matter what reads and surrounding info you provide, there is still a ton of missing info, and all people can do is come up with best practices based on how they perceive the situation.

Betting the flop is really setting this hand up for failure. What is the purpose of our bet? I think there is potential of getting some value out of this hand as you played it by betting the turn.. Flop bet... SEEMS HORRIFIC LOL

I wish everyone here had this attitude and stopped using absolutes. It would be a much better site if that was the case.

If the flop came AQ4 with a flush draw and we had say KQ, betting flop is not as good because most LLSNL players will limp a lot more Ax than Kx. Since this is a King-high board, we can get value from a lot of draws AND there are less Kx in our opponents' limp/calling ranges.

IMO you're on tilt. Hand reading and ranges are one and the same. It is a science, but at these stakes, the players simply aren't good enough to get completely reliable results. What we are doing is making better decisions than our opponents which requires better hand reading, not precise hand reading.