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Tough spot with KK Tough spot with KK
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06-08-2016 , 04:51 PM
#1
Shag401
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New to table no reads 2/5
Hero utg with two red kings opens to 25 button calls and the blinds call

Flop (100) 9c10sJc
Blinds check hero bets 70 folded around to big blind who calls
Turn (240) 4d
Big blind checks hero bets 120 big blind raises all in fpr 400 more. Call or fold?
Last edited by Shag401; 06-08-2016 at 04:57 PM.
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06-08-2016 , 04:53 PM
#2
djevans
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uggg this whole hand history is a mess.
What are blinds and stack sizes?

3 other players called your bet?

This is probably a half pot bet instead of $70 bet especially if you are new to table.
I like $50 more than $70

Turn i'm on the fence about betting and checking. betting is probably fine but i'm folding to the raise vs an unknown.
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06-08-2016 , 05:14 PM
#3
Amanaplan
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Bad turn sizing, ck is nice.
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06-08-2016 , 05:16 PM
#4
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Your turn bet sizing implied your intention to b/f. So fold.

I would have bet full pot ott hoping to get AI for 100bb against unknowns at 2/5.
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06-08-2016 , 07:03 PM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shag401
New to table no reads 2/5
Hero utg with two red kings opens to 25 button calls and the blinds call

Flop (100) 9c10sJc
Blinds check hero bets 70 folded around to big blind who calls
Turn (240) 4d
Big blind checks hero bets 120 big blind raises all in fpr 400 more. Call or fold?
Don't have to bet this flop and def don't bet this turn imo.
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06-08-2016 , 07:55 PM
#6
7weeks2days
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call y'all
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06-08-2016 , 08:08 PM
#7
MikeStarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
Don't have to bet this flop and def don't bet this turn imo.
+1
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06-08-2016 , 08:28 PM
#8
7weeks2days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
+1
Betting the flop, and then betting the turn is fine. Its not a slam dunk gii spot but I dont think its that bad. I dont think there are many hands that are beating you that arent raising otf. Plus your 1/2 pot sizing may be inducing Jx to just decide to shove.
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06-08-2016 , 08:36 PM
#9
MikeStarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days
Betting the flop, and then betting the turn is fine. Its not a slam dunk gii spot but I dont think its that bad. I dont think there are many hands that are beating you that arent raising otf. Plus your 1/2 pot sizing may be inducing Jx to just decide to shove.
Nobody said betting wasnt fine. He said you dont HAVE to bet this flop and definitely dont HAVE to bet this turn and I agreed.
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06-08-2016 , 08:46 PM
#10
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Koko the munkey
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With this hand on this flop, I'm just trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. I'd check the flop, check/decide the turn, and check/fold the river. It's just too wet of a flop to try and extract a lot of value. If you decide to play for stacks here, you're behind more often than not. How much more depends on the villain.

As played, fold to shove.
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06-08-2016 , 08:47 PM
#11
7weeks2days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Nobody said betting wasnt fine. He said you dont HAVE to bet this flop and definitely dont HAVE to bet this turn and I agreed.
Ok. when i said betting the flop is fine i meant that I think betting this flop> not betting otf.
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06-08-2016 , 08:51 PM
#12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days
Ok. when i said betting the flop is fine i meant that I think betting this flop> not betting otf.
It's hard to bet this flop and not be forced to turn your hand face up as 1 pair at some point without over playing imo. Right?
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06-08-2016 , 08:54 PM
#13
Jamitontheriver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koko the munkey
With this hand on this flop, I'm just trying to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. I'd check the flop, check/decide the turn, and check/fold the river. It's just too wet of a flop to try and extract a lot of value. If you decide to play for stacks here, you're behind more often than not. How much more depends on the villain.

As played, fold to shove.
How can a flop be too wet to extract value? If you aren't getting value on wet boards you are really losing out on money. Plus here we block the nuts which means that a Q might think they are getting the right odds to chase but are not since we have two of their outs.

Bet flop, bet turn, fold to the shove. Hands that shove turn here tend to be pretty nutted.
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06-08-2016 , 09:11 PM
#14
7weeks2days
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrybe
It's hard to bet this flop and not be forced to turn your hand face up as 1 pair at some point without over playing imo. Right?

Being worried about turning your hand face up vs unknowns is not something that will prevent me from attempting to get value. Of course sometimes we overplay our hand, but i think the majority of the time unknowns are going to call and sometimes gii with worse ott.

If we have a set here are we still betting the turn and gii vs unknowns?

I think so. I dont know many villians who will flat a straight on this board. In our case, I dont know many unknown villains who will flat on the flop with 2p+ with less than 100bbs deep either.
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06-08-2016 , 10:50 PM
#15
Nice_Guy_Eddie
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Check the turn. You want to get to a showdown asap and cheaply. You have four Q outs to improve plus perhaps some better two pair outs. You should not be looking to extract value on the turn with an overpair.

The flop bet is good. You should go for one street of value against random drawing hands and try to eliminate a player.
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