Tough spot against pro in 2/5 - Page 4 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Triple reverse blocker levels ftw

Against a complete player you can make this call down that’s about all there is to it. Just imagine how much more fun this hand is with 400bb+.

You play good.

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06-06-2018 , 04:50 AM

#77

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,389

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badreg2017

I don’t think so.

If our opponent flats KTs against our 3 bet then having the Kd in our hand is bad because we block less KTs since the Td is on the board already blocking that combo of KTs. If we have the KsKh in our hand, then it’s impossible for our opponent to have KTs thus blocking a significant percent of his value range.

If our opponent folds KTs then the suits of our kings are basically inconsequential. Our opponent isn’t bluffing his Kx anyway so it’s irrelevant.

I meant in general, not necessarily specific to this hand. However, for this hand I disagree about Kx not being relevant since I expect V to peel KQs/KJs on the flop and take this same line and then arrive at river with even better bluffing combos than QJs, reinforcing the idea that it's really easy for bluffing combos to be out of whack here.

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06-06-2018 , 11:28 AM

#78

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Once you arrive at the end of the hand, and oop villain shoves, you only consider your suits of your KK if you intend to fold some portion of your KK hands. This would mean that you should fold every QQ every time in this exact spot.

Don’t fold KK with a diamond but call QQ without a diamond. Only optimize the combos that you think are exactly borderline, and combos above and below that will be pure calls or pure folds.

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06-06-2018 , 11:46 AM

#79

niceguy22

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 824

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockchucker8

I also think bluffing diamond combos OTR vs a perceived thinking reg would get real punty, real quick so the above 5 combos are close to the bluff range I'd like to have in this spot.

I think I'd call KK vs myself, but it's by no means a easy spot and I can't blame you for folding at all.

Why would bluffing diamond combos be worse than bluffing say QJ?

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06-06-2018 , 12:03 PM

#80

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Bc a portion of your calldown range is

, as villain we want you to have as many of those combos as possible in your range when we bluff river, so if we have them ourselves, we are blocking a portion of what we want to fold out.

i.e. when we block more of the missed draws you have more value and are folding to a jam less often overall

This is why front door draws make very poor triple barrels, and is perhaps one of the biggest "ahas" derived from solvers.

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06-06-2018 , 12:16 PM

#81

niceguy22

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 824

Makes sense. I was thinking I could have QJs in this spot too, but I guess I have at least twice as many diamond combos as I do QJ.

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06-06-2018 , 02:46 PM

#82

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,682

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel9861

Pio disagrees, at least for the ranges that I gave both players. It prefers betting QJ as a bluff rather than KQ/KJ. It thinks KK with a diamond is a lower EV call than KK without a diamond. Although, if our opponent doesn’t have KTs, then the EV of every KK combo is roughly the same.

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06-06-2018 , 04:53 PM

#83

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Badreg.

1) you picked up pio pretty quick. Did you reference any training guides?

2) does pio defend JTs at the same frequencies as KTs as the oop villain in this hand example? I'm genuinely curious how it values these 2 combos as oop defends