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tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD

06-29-2012 , 10:47 AM
wasup 2+2ziens, long time lurker first time poster here. So I play exclusively online, im on holiday in a city with a casino and have tried my hand at the 1/2 tables.

Villian is 30ish asian fairly boisterous not many read besides he plays loose pre, limping alot from all positions and has raised pretty often. I've seen him limp fold UTG and from other spots. basicaly flat calls OOP uber frequently to a raise, almost always if there is 1 or more callers.
He seems to play fairly standard fit or fold postflop and calls very light (like the rest of the table) seen him make a few stabs and got called bluffing a few times. when he sat down he made a c'raise overshove like 2 hands in without showdown on a drawish flop.

Hero is young winnning TAG, I pretty much play like 15/10/4 and cbet alot
notably hero has just lost like 80 BB in a bluffcatch on river to a loose villain


villain has like almost 300
hero has like 200ish after just loosing a big hand

1/2
Hero: KdKc MP

Villain raises to 5 UTG
another MP limps (ive just recently made friends with him and he gives all my moves massive respect)
Hero raise to 22
folds to Villain who calls reasonably quickly

Flop:
Q107 all clubs

Villain checks to me
Hero bets 35
Villain insta anounces all in
hero has like 180 behind and is upset

so yea, basicaly **** sucks ay. I have my own thoughts on this but im interested to see how everyone feels about the situation, calling vs folding.
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by odeelol
.

Villian is 30ish asian fairly boisterous not many read besides he plays loose pre, limping alot from all positions and has raised pretty often. I've seen him limp fold UTG and from other spots. basicaly flat calls OOP uber frequently to a raise, almost always if there is 1 or more callers.
He seems to play fairly standard fit or fold postflop and calls very light (like the rest of the table) seen him make a few stabs and got called bluffing a few times. when he sat down he made a c'raise overshove like 2 hands in without showdown on a drawish flop.
Make your own range but in my estimation going on your reads this is a fistpump call.
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:12 AM
he never has the nut flush here....
He raised 5 pre flop....thats often small pairs...77 in his range....sometimes that's AA and then calls the 3 bet both could do that....
may be small suited connectors...but does he (though he likes to gamble by your discription)....
Could be just making a dumb move with his 44 or something stupid putting you on AK and planning to make a move...he's Asian and he likes to shove...

His range... AA, 77 QTs Jc9c 9c8c 8c6c 6c5c and say some pairs with a club...44 and 88 with a club..

Against that range we have 50% equity....

If we get rid of the 88 and 44 with a club it goes down to about 33%...

The final pot will be about 475 and you have to call 180...which means you have to be good about 37% of the time....

Given that you seen him overshove before I lean more towards the 50%+ equity range and make the call...
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:16 AM
With a stack-to-pot ratio of 180:49 (3.5:1), this is a standard call for me against this type of villain. I'm not completely happy about the situation but its a snap-call nonetheless because I'm so used to the spot.

If we started the hand with effective stacks of about 330 (165bb), I think at that point it starts to become a fold for me

If I start the hand with 400 (200bb) then... while I hate the situation, its still probably a clear fold for me.

Professional NLHE by Ed Miller et al is an excellent book which covers this kind of spot well.

We easily have 50% equity or more against his range and we're getting pot odds of like 44% (180/410 as a fraction or 11.5:9 against as a ratio).

Last edited by Nogyong; 06-29-2012 at 11:31 AM.
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:35 AM
Some examples of how good our equity is:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
990 trials (Exhaustive)
board: QT7
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcKh52.73% 5220
QsTs47.27% 4680

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
990 trials (Exhaustive)
board: QT7
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcKh51.52% 5100
AcQs48.48% 4800

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
990 trials (Exhaustive)
board: QT7
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcKh52.73% 5220
Td7d47.27% 4680

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
990 trials (Exhaustive)
board: QT7
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcKh36.46% 3610
7h7d63.54% 6290

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
990 trials (Exhaustive)
board: QT7
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
KcKh23.13% 2290
9c8c76.87% 7610

We're only really afraid of sets and made flushes and we still have outs vs most of those.
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by odeelol
Villian is 30ish asian fairly boisterous not many read besides he plays loose pre, limping alot from all positions and has raised pretty often. I've seen him limp fold UTG and from other spots. basicaly flat calls OOP uber frequently to a raise, almost always if there is 1 or more callers.
He seems to play fairly standard fit or fold postflop and calls very light (like the rest of the table) seen him make a few stabs and got called bluffing a few times. when he sat down he made a c'raise overshove like 2 hands in without showdown on a drawish flop.
fistpump
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:40 AM
yea so my thoughts at the table are
1. Assuming he does this with every set (not necessarily true) he has 3x2 combos for each card, so 18 combos that im like 33% against
2. He does this with 2 pair, Q10 is only combo i give him 3x3 combos 9, but he cant have a FD so i think im like 40% coz board can pair
3. he has a pair and a FD QJ KQ 10x he is getting crushed here at like 8 % and he has heaps of combos
4. he has a pair like Js with a club and is also getting crushed

against AQ with Ac im still ahead. It never occured to me he could have AA here, but im 33% against 8 of those combos without the FD and getting crushed by the 4 that have it

Good thinkings?
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote
06-29-2012 , 11:49 AM
oh and i feel like AJcc is like, never doing this? so we can discount that, which is his main flush
tough check shove flop spot with an overpair and the FD Quote

      
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