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toppair good kicker vs flopraise toppair good kicker vs flopraise

11-18-2018 , 06:37 PM
1/2 nlh

preflop:
early Position Player 100bb KQo raise 8bb
villain 50bb call 8bb

flop 2 player: Qh4d8d, 19bb
Player bet 14 bb
villain raise all in 42bb

1: would you call?
2: what is villains range?
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-18-2018 , 06:45 PM
1) Yes
2) No clue
3) Fold Pre
4) Post is harder to read when you post in terms of bbs rather than $s.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-18-2018 , 06:46 PM
This sounds like a bad Beat story and you are V. If so, please be aware that such threads (reverse HHs) are not allowed in this forum.

Reads needed, but generally this is a fold to the raise on a pretty dry board. Also, there is no need to hammer the flop with an overbet.

V's range is QQ+ AdKd, Maybe a couple of QdXd hands, sets, and if he sucks some 2p and AdXd hands.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-18-2018 , 08:02 PM
shrug call i guess, i don't like bombing it to 16 dollar preflop in one two. i see some good players who do it relying on the fact the 1-2 players won't fight back preflop without a top 4 hand and will give up too much to flop bets. so it does seem to work, alright but the 4-5 way pots when there is 60-70 dollars in pot and flop something marginal become very hard to play as preflop agressor.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-19-2018 , 12:09 AM
Yes, I'm calling.

With no reads on villain, an average range here is probably QTs+ QJo+, 88/44, maybe JJ/TT + suited connector diamond combos and Axdd. Seems like a pretty slam dunk call. 50bb deep (which in a more "normal" game is like 25bb because of the preflop sizing) is a slam dunk gii when you flop TPGK.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-19-2018 , 06:09 AM
Preflop raise is pretty big. Post is an obvious bet/call it off given stack sizes.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-19-2018 , 12:24 PM
This is slightly dependent on your opponent, but you need to give them a ton of credit to fold here. First of all, the pot is 19BB @ flop (2.21 SPR - effective stack 42BB). Meaning in this spot you basically always are stacking off with top pair. If you're not willing to stack off with top pair, then you're super exploitable here.

Furthermore, if you're trying to play it safe with top pair, what is the point of betting 14BB here? A 14BB bet turns this into a 1 SPR pot. How can you possibly fold after that point to a re-raise? You would need a huge read on Villain to give him credit for having you beat often enough here. You're calling 28BB into 100BB, so you only need 28% equity on average to break even here.

What is his range when he calls flop? That's very player dependent and you haven't specified. Unless he is highly aware of short stack play and is playing very tight in this spot, which most villains at $1-2 are NOT doing and instead are calling way too wide here, then his range includes a bunch of flush draws (AdXd, KdJd, KdTd), QJ, QT. Once you start adding just a few of those hands to his potential range here, it becomes a very obvious call. Then add in a lot of AK with one diamond, possibly even AK with no diamond. He can also have JJ, TT, 99. He likely 3 bets KK, QQ pre. Unless he's super tricky he does the same with AA.

Then what has you beat right now? Sets have you crushed, sure. If he's calling 44 here then he's also calling a bunch of hands you beat. Even calling with 88 is pretty bad here @ 50 BB stack. Might as well just shove or 3Bet pre. QQ is super blocked. So the sets are actually unlikely, and if he does have sets here, especially 44, then he also has tons of flush draws. The main hand that beats you is AQ, which you block. If he's calling any of the 2 pair hands then once again it means he's calling with a bunch of garbage that you crush.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-20-2018 , 06:17 AM
Villain showed me AQo.
The Hand occured in the first 1-2 h of the session.
Villain had the fancy style/cloth of a wild Player, if you know what i mean, but just a feeling.
He played relativ tight, not super tight, but definitely not loose. No idea about his 3 bets.
A lot of the players at the table played their flush draws as a raise, but no idea about him.
I gave him a range like:
88,KQ,JQ,a lot of flush draws and maybe a pure bluff. I did not think about QQ and AQ because i would 3bet these Hands. But i never play a short or midstack.
Dear US Cowboys (no offense ) BB because i played this Hand in Europe.
Thanks for your opinions.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-20-2018 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samesame
Villain showed me AQo.
The Hand occured in the first 1-2 h of the session.
Villain had the fancy style/cloth of a wild Player, if you know what i mean, but just a feeling.
He played relativ tight, not super tight, but definitely not loose. No idea about his 3 bets.
A lot of the players at the table played their flush draws as a raise, but no idea about him.
I gave him a range like:
88,KQ,JQ,a lot of flush draws and maybe a pure bluff. I did not think about QQ and AQ because i would 3bet these Hands. But i never play a short or midstack.
Dear US Cowboys (no offense ) BB because i played this Hand in Europe.
Thanks for your opinions.
There's just nothing you can do here. It's the dream flop for AQ vs KQ.
There are draws out there which he can play the exact same way. He basically has to get it in with any Q here based on SPR. You can't call 8 BB from a 50 BB stack and fold top pair to a cbet. He also shoves any A/K high flush draws. Even JJ has to get it in most of the time on this flop / situation. So yeah you're fine, short stack play has high variance.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote
11-21-2018 , 01:06 PM
Cant open KQ to 8bb and then fold to a 50bb stack on Qxx or Kxx without some amazing reads that the guy is a monster nit.
toppair good kicker vs flopraise Quote

      
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