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Old 12-29-2013, 12:00 PM   #1
riverjordan13
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Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Hey, think I might've played this very badly, would appreciate thoughts on all streets, but especially the turn.

This is a 5 handed 1/2 game in my casino last night. V1 has 160, V2 has 250 and I cover both of them.

I've been playing pretty ABC, but I've been running very well and rarely getting to showdown. This, plus the fact that I'm in my early 20s, makes me think that table sees me as more aggressive than I am.

V1 is a competent TAG, he's been picking his spots well, raising in position and double barreling when needed.

V2 is a typical loose passive fish, been calling down with any draw, and limp calling almost any two preflop.

V1 is on the button, I'm in the SB and V2 is in the BB.

CO open limps and V1 makes it 9 on the button. I look down at AsKs and decide to flat. I'd usually 3bet this, obviously, but decided to flat, mostly for balance. I planned on calling this guy down very light. Thoughts?

V2 calls and CO folds. The flop comes down Ah Kh 9d. I check, and am quite surprised when it checks around.

The turn is the Qh, and I decide to start getting some value and charging draws and bet 21. V2 calls and V1 makes it 65.

Any advice?
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:05 PM   #2
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Call.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:10 PM   #3
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Folding would be a crime IMO. So would a 3bet. This is a call all day. Villain 2's range is a whole lot of junk so you're ahead a ton, and because your hand is so ridiculously under repped, I'm pretty sure you're ahead of villain 1's range also. Call and plan to call all non-heart and non J/T rivers.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:20 PM   #4
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Bet the flop on the button

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Old 12-29-2013, 12:47 PM   #5
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Bet the flop on the button

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Hero is SB
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #6
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I think calling is best. Don't see V with too many flush possibilities with the AKQ of hearts ok the board. I think V can have QQ here a lot. AA KK are also possibilities but I don't see V checking with those hands otf. I would call and probably x/c almost all rivers
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:25 PM   #7
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

I think the replies are giving a "Competent TAG" too wide of a range on the turn. There aren't even flush draw combos that he could possibly even have......you think he's spewing off with J9 - he was PF raiser and he's not a maniac. There was an aggressive action and a call, that's when you go for value not for spew.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:21 PM   #8
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Lead flop into the fish all day.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:26 PM   #9
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Quote:
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I think the replies are giving a "Competent TAG" too wide of a range on the turn. There aren't even flush draw combos that he could possibly even have......you think he's spewing off with J9 - he was PF raiser and he's not a maniac. There was an aggressive action and a call, that's when you go for value not for spew.
But a competent TAG will recognize the opportunity for a squeeze. Hero has shown down very few hands and most likely has a LAGish image. Villain 2 OTOH is a spewy passive fish. Given the situation, a competent TAG could very well do this with a wide range, ESPECIALLY since hero's hand looks nothing like what it actually is. Just my opinion. I play a pretty LAG, higher variance game, so take it for what it's worth.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:28 PM   #10
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

I'm never checking that flop, lead for 2/3 - 3/4 psb. As played that is easily the worst card in the deck for you. Bet folding is correct IMO as he is reraising you as we'll as the fish. Lets get real here, a TAG isn't reraising 2 pair here ever. I am pretty disgusted that I have to fold but it is a fold.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:50 PM   #11
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Lol @ balancing in a live 1-2 game. 3 bet pre and bet the flop. As played should have lead flop. Now call and play the river.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:07 PM   #12
riverjordan13
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Quote:
Originally Posted by m_hood115 View Post
Lead flop into the fish all day.
This is something I never even considered, and I'm actually quite disappointed that I didn't! What would you think about sizing? My intention was to c/r, obv, but didn't get the chance. Do people agree with my turn lead (on the nut worst card for me) or should I ever be checking again there?

Although his small turn 3bet looked very strong to me, I didn't think he was ever checking the flop with a flush draw, and thought he might have some air or a worse two pair here (for value against V2 - and I know I don't look overly strong here, given my aggro image), so I ended up calling, and V2 called behind.


The river was the Kh. So there was about 220ish in the pot, V2 had 175, V1 had 85 and action was on me (I cover both). What's my best plan of action here?
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:22 PM   #13
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

All in.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:24 PM   #14
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Why would he not check behind with a flush draw?

All in now. Nice river.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:25 PM   #15
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Well first off, check the deck because there's 2 Kh's.... Second (since I assume it was another K) I would probably c/shove since a bet essentially says you have a FH and the only hands he's calling with is AA or QQ and maybe KQ. Since he's betting QQ and KQ 100% anyway, I'd let him do the betting since he may also bet some flushes that he probably wouldn't call a shove with.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:28 PM   #16
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Dont get fancy with a check shove. Just shove. If either one of these guys has a flush and its very likely that one of them do they probably wont fold.. especially v2.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:34 PM   #17
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

What's fancy about it? It's about maximizing value. He's betting all FH's and a lot of flushes. He's also calling with all FH's, but NOT calling very many flushes. It's way more +EV c/shoving.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:42 PM   #18
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What's fancy about it? It's about maximizing value. He's betting all FH's and a lot of flushes. He's also calling with all FH's, but NOT calling very many flushes. It's way more +EV c/shoving.
Its fancy because its unnessecary and hero risks losing value by having villains check flushes through, scared of fh. You must not have paid attention to the op. V2 is a loose passive fish and i dont see loose passive fish folding flushes very often.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:56 PM   #19
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

I agree. You stand a chance of flushes checking through. But the only way you have a chance to get both stacks is if V1 is betting because he isn't calling your shove with most flushes. By checking, V2 probably checks also since he's a passive player, thereby opening it up for V1 to ship for value. When you check/shove, V2 (who is a passive fish) probably can't fold a flush because it's 1/2 NL and "omg I have a flush".
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:06 PM   #20
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

I would only check shove if they were both aggressive players and the risk of the hand getting checked through was super low. Im really focused more on winning v2s stack as he has more. It can go either way. I just dont like hoping they bet when i can just bet myself. Again if they were both really aggro players and i could count on them betting river a high percentage of the time id check shove but with a loose passive fish in the hand and him having the most $ behind im just betting here almost always.
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Old 12-29-2013, 07:15 PM   #21
riverjordan13
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

So sorry guys, slipped up there, obviously the river was NOT the king of hearts, it was the king of clubs/diamonds (not sure which, tbh, but still). Apologies!
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:50 PM   #22
riverjordan13
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Re: Top two facing turn raise at 1/2

Anyway, I decided to bet 100 on the river. I thought v2 could easily have been stationing the turn with a hand like KT/KJ with a heart, or any ace, which he'd have a hard time folding given his fishy ways, but might not call off his stack with. if Does this make sense, or is it just bad?

Anyway, results if anyone's interested:

V2 tanked for a little while before folding, and V1 snapped and showed 99.

Thanks a lot for all the replies!
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