2/3 NL

V1 - Loose, aggressive, will definitely gamble with big money. Impossible to put him on a hand because he will raise/3-bet ATC and is not afraid to bluff multiple streets or shove w a naked flush draw. In trying to figure him out, he doesn't seem to have a logical reason for doing things, his actions on when/why to raise seem pretty random. For example, he decides to 3-bet an early position raise from a guy that has literally played 3 hands in 4 hours. The EP raiser had KK (obviously) and he 3-bet w T5, it went 3 to the flop, and KK tripled up when T5 caught some piece of the board. One thing I will say is he definitely bets/raises more than he calls. ~$1500.

V2 - Calls too much but plays unexpected hands so can be kind of unpredictable. Will gamble/draw without proper odds. Not afraid of throwing money around, is capable of turning his hand into a bluff. ~$650

Hero - Winning, mostly TAG image. Godmoded one particular terribad V for about $600 by always having a slightly better hand and getting lots of value from him. Have always had the goods in big pots so far. ~$1300.

V1 straddles to $6 UTG, UTG+1 Calls, Hero (UTG+2) has 88 and calls, MP calls, V2 calls from SB, V1 raises to $17 and everyone calls.

Flop ($80) 874

V2 checks, V1 bets $30, UTG+1 calls, Hero?

pre is a raise ...

as played, i would make it $150 to go... clear value ...

I like the preflop limp/call. We have poor position and would much rather play this in a 2-bet pot where people will stack off anyway.

I'm okay with just calling here. Perhaps V1 squeezes. Maybe they go nuts next street and start reraising each other. The problem I see with raising here is that the board is kinda dry (2 straight draws only) and we block the more likely two pair combos.

The weak cbet and call make it very likely that they have weak hands. Raising here blasts them out most of the time. Very few hands play this way that we can get value from; just the two straight draws really.

You need to raise flop if u have any hope of getting stacks in by rvr

Yep.

You say they are both loose and gambooly and will call with any piece of the board, and don't care about correct odds?
$150+.

$200 if you think they will both call it.

$500 on most if not all turn cards.

Shove the river.

Sux that 56s is in their ranges...either could have a 9T too...gotta raise. If they fold, they fold but dont let them chase for so cheap

Preflop limp is fine. Put in a big raise, about 150, vs villain you described and hope that he has some piece to play back at you.

88 is too good to not raise PF why take the flop w/ multiple players. Just raise for value and to isolate. The way i see it if you have valid logical reasons to raise a hand and don't your begging to run right into the nuts which you don't have.

I disagree, 88 is a hand that plays extremely well multiway, and since the pot is straddled there is likely to be a lot of money in the pot even if it is limped around. You're not likely to lose a lot of money if you miss since most flops are bigger than 8 high. Most flops you will end of c/folding which is fine, but if you flop a set you will likely make a lot of money since it is likely that someone else will flop something.

I think TT is definitely a raise preflop, 99 is fine either as a call or a raise IMO, depending on the table.

Oh and definitely raise the flop. You are ahead of everything except 56, including smaller sets, 2 pairs, pair+gutters, and OESDs. Can't give them a free card. I think a raise to $130 is good.

You say V barrells/bluffs a lot. What does he do when somebody plays back at him post-flop?

I also just limp/call preflop. We're super deep so I really just want to see a flop first before deciding whether to create a big pot (i.e. I wouldn't want to raise preflop only to be 3bet).

I suck at deepstack poker. I think I probably play a lot too cautiously. Anyhoo, with that said, we've got the second nuts on the flop, so I think I'm willing to stack off here against these guys, especially since they can both show up with hands that they feel are better (but aren't). So I would make up my mind on the flop to play for stacks.

The way we play for stacks is to raise. So I would raise the flop. There's already $140 in the pot. Board ain't too drawy (although any 6/5 will definitely slow things down), but these guys look like they are cool with putting money in the pot, so I'd still raise big. I typically raise to give poor 2:1 odds, so I'd raise to $200. This will create a $480 pot with $1100 left against V1 HU, so we are now on our way for playing for stacks.

GsucksatdeepstackG

With stacks this deep and an aggro action guy on the table, I think you could argue that having a 0% preflop raising range is fine.

GbutIalsosuckatdeepstackG

I agree 88 plays well multi-way and I like a mix of limping and raising PF, especially with an aggressive villain on the button. Raising on the flop is the easiest and most likely way of getting entire stacks in by the river and given your account of villian's previous play, there's likely to be a great deal of value in it. How often do you see him calling $150 here with his range? What hands do you see him re-raising with?

I am not a fan of raising this due to our absolute position ( it sucks). I'm much cooler with a set mine mutual way in this spot.


Flop is a raise but I'm actually making it pretty small. Only one of them has Ben described as really spewy. A small raise can keep on his wtf pair hands along with whatever draws are out there and may even keep others in as well. The nice thing about this spot is its pretty easy to see when thy get there and we have strong equity vs them anyway. So I'm just going tiny like $100. Let the bombing begin on the next street.

You're giving these two V's WAAAAY too much credit if you think their 56 needs to be sooted.

Post flop, sometimes he continues to raises, sometimes he gets out of the way. Doesn't get into ego-raising-wars. The only extremely predictable thing is he will bet all-in on flop or turn with a flush draw. Every single time he has bet all-in, it was a flush draw. I haven't seen him bet all-in with a single made/value hand. In a $600 pot he over bet shoved flush draw on the turn and other V called, they both missed flushes and second V won with Q-high. He does seem to understand its better to be the aggressor because of the FE.

Raisie Daisie! I like $165 to go.

To be honest, this is a factor for me. V1 and I have been staying out of each other's way for the most part as we have more than 2x as many chips as anyone else at the table. I know he cares less about the money than I do, here's there to gamble and I'm there to win money. I can easily shrug off losing a $300 (100 BB) hand but I know in my mind he'd play a $3k pot with me with a flush draw and I wouldn't fold but I'd be sick to my stomach about it.

Why didn't I get up and leave? Because I want to get better and build a tolerance for being deep. If he had been targeting my stack instead of staying out of my way for the most part, I would have considered it. I had a great seat to his left so decided to stick it out and get the experience playing super deep.

Unless you're Pretty sure they'll call a bigger raise, I'd raise to $110 or so. The only real draw out there is T9 and gut shots. You want to keep worse in and shouldn't worry too kin about getting outdrawn

Hero raised to $100 (which most of you thought was too little). Folds to V2 who calls, everyone else folds. HU to the turn…

At this point, I thought V2 overcalling $100 was pretty strong. I thought lower sets, 56, maybe 96, unlikely 87 (bc of blockers) and a lesser chance of something like 76, 45. In my head I was leaning towards 56 or lower sets…

Turn ($340) - T
V2 leads for $100. Hero?

This is a pretty great turn card for us.
If he has J9 or 96 well then congratulations for him, he's terrible cold calling $100 on the flop. And not that great for calling pre flop either.

Edit: Whoops, I misread the turn action.
I'm raising, I just can't decide how much.
Given that he didn't 3bet us on the flop, I think flopped straights are out of his range. Our hand looks pretty strong on the flop, so there's no reason for him to think that we are going to fold.

I think our shove is just a little bit too big here, as $450 is just a lot of money for people to call off with draws here.
But at the same time, our stack is just too short to raise the turn and get a good value shove on the river.

Even still, I think that I would raise to $325, giving him ~3:1 + 1:1 IO on his money which is not quite enough for an OESD so unless he turned a combo draw somehow with 76. Then we can lol shove for $200 on the river into every river card.

Is V1 ever folding a draw to any non-absurd raise? Probably not, which is why I'm in the bigger raise camp; that and a $100 raise will actually make it difficult to play for stacks by the river unless he gets out-of-line (which I guess is possible if we bait him with a small raise). Anyhoo, looks like we got it HU against V2 (which we'll have no problem getting stacks in).

If we just call the turn bet, the pot will be $540 with villain having $433. We'll be in position, so we'll have no problem getting stacks in. It's possible Villain is ahead. 65 was ahead on the flop, 96 (perhaps a little unlikely due to preflop?), J9 and TT (not hugely unlikely) both went ahead, although we are only practically drawing dead vs one hand. We're ahead of 77/44, some tricky overpairs, and some two pair hands (albeit somewhat unlikely due to blockers), some of which could perhaps manage an amazing hero fold. There are a crap load of scare cards that could slow action on the river (flush card, 5/6/9/J which brings 4-to-a-straight). All in all, I think I shove.

GsucksatdeepstackG

He cuold be trying to set his price. He could have you beat. You have 20% vs everything but TT so that mitigates getting it in behind somewhat. Go ahead and stick it in. If he has any concept of commitment whatesoever (not a given) he can't fold, and if he's at all sticky (likely) he won't be able to fold either.

I raise this 100 times out of 100 against the villains you describe.

The correct play is to go broke vs. 56, and win lots of money from everything else he'll call with.