1-2 NL Holdem

V1 is a friend of the hero. I know v1 to be tight but definitely not a nit, Tight agressive. He just won a 200 dollar pot by callling all in with Jacks on a dangerous looking flop. Sitting with 400 in front. UTG+1

V2 is a middle aged asian. He seems kind of loose and made the big bluff against V1 a short time ago. 200 in front. BB

All other villains don't really get involved later.

Hero is in the SB with 200 in front. Just took a sort of bad beat and reloaded. Hero holds As5s.

OTTH

V1 raises to 8 dollars. 3 loose players call. Hero decided to gamble and calls. V2 calls.

($48)

Flop comes

Ac Js 9s.

Hero now first to act,

Hero?

CRAI against either of these guys although knowing your perceived image could be useful

Yes, I like check/raise (shove mostly likely).

Should be checking this flop at a frequency of near 100% of the time. It's totally no problem if this flop gets checked through, but taking the betting lead out of flow is not something that has much benefit here. You can check raise if you want to or just call and realize your equity if you don't think you can get a bigger Ace to fold here.

Ok I checked...

BB check.

V1 bets 27 dollars.

All other villains fold to hero.

Hero?

AI

I was going to type that $100 might actually look scarier, but might as well gii. I want to see two cards, and I kind of want him to call

What hands do we expect to get called by when we shove? How much of his range are those hands?

Here’s something I don’t get about pair+draws in general. If we get called, our weak top-pair-five-kicker is almost certainly no good, and we might as well have a naked flush draw. So why do people get so excited about pair+draw hands and play them so much more aggressively? The best answer I can think of is in case both of you are on a busted draw, and your weak top pair breaks the tie, but that doesn’t seem like a good enough reason.

Because we need to see two cards, and we might not get paid if the spade comes otherwise. Plus, we have some fold equity and can win with A5. It would be different if we were deeper.

What hands does V have here that we are trying to fold out? I doubt AK, AQ, AJ are certainly calling off. AT?

If he is behind, he likely has somewhere between 1 - 6 outs, 8 if he has exactly QTss, QTss is obviously calling, but the rest of those hands that are folding are hands that we weren't really scared of to begin with.

If he is ahead he has 60-70% equity and isn't likely to fold.

on this type of board where top pair is an Ace, I agree with you. I'm not super stoked to get all of the money in on the flop.

But if we just call, it's very likely we don't make any money when a spade hits, and if the turn is a blank, we have to fold to any reasonable bet, which really sucks if we are ahead w/ A5. If we call a small/medium bet on the turn, again we don't get paid if the spade comes, and again we have to fold to any reasonable bet. Not much leeway for us to do anything else (bet/fold, etc.) because we aren't deep enough.

For me, if I'm not willing to gii on this flop w/ 100bb, I don't know why on earth I bothered calling pre. OP even mentioned he was gambling -- what more do you want?

(And I am more than happy to win right now.)

^ Agree with everything Javanewt. Also, potentially could be GII vs a weaker FD.

A five should be good as well. Not the same as a naked flush draw at all

So we should just be happy folding out hands that have minimal equity and then getting it in with 29%-38%% equity HU, most of the time?

If we call we allow some other hands that he might be c-betting to stay in (hands like KK, QQ, KQ). Those hands have minimal equity, could improve to a set/straight on some cards that will make our nut flush and will pay us off. Raising now folds those hands out, which seems like an outcome we would like to avoid.

Now the plus side of shipping is that we might be able to get some calls by KQss, KTss, OTss, and 78ss and we are in great shape against those hands. If you think that these hands would be opening in the main villain's shoes and then c-betting OTF. Then shipping here makes a lot of sense as your equity goes way up from 38% to about 54% against his range.

1) We're 44% against AKdd. 2) If we call and show aggression when a spade rolls off V may find a hero fold with hands that we're expecting to get paid off by. (it's hard to extract max value OOP)

Might as well maximize our FE and pile

I get it, I understand what you are saying. You're never making to huge of a mistake here by shoving to realize your equity. I just think that you're often going to be outkicked and basically just shoving a flush draw here.

I don't know the V well enough to know if he is continuing the flop with lesser FD's than us AND will call off. If he is checking KQss or 78ss, then I don't think we are making money by shoving.

what hands are we targeting for folds?

Considering those hands are rarely continuing on the turn, anyway, unless they can beat A5ss, it's fine if they fold.

We called a raise pre-flop from SB and hit about as good as we could. We should maximize our FE and maximize the amount we can win if we hit. Heck, we might get called by worse (K-high flush draw).

Otherwise, end the thread with fold pre/

We don't know how a tight player will react facing an overbet shove with an A.

Potentially he has some broadways and under pairs given the lol pot sweetner size pre. KK-QQ, 10s is possible as well.

I don't this spot is particularly close. No point in gambling pre with this hand like Javanewt said if we're looking to avoid GII on this flop. Are we trying to flop a flush vs top set?

so the Goal of a shove is to get KJ/QJ/KQ to fold as well as KK/QQ/TT?

It's not the goal, it's a goal. I'm not convinced he's calling it off with all his Aces here. If the roles were reversed, a lot of people would advise villain to fold AQ here facing a large shove (relative to the pot size)

We're doing fine against his continuation vs the shove as well which is obv important.

This is why everyone tells people to fold hands like this in the blinds pre. I don't mind these spots very much, but I'm not sure many people realize how unlikely it is for us to flop this well