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Top pair and NFD against whale Top pair and NFD against whale

11-28-2019 , 09:58 PM
1-2NL deep stack game in SE Asia (most players buy in for $500 to $1500. )

Hero has $500, villain covers

Whale who calls himself 'big fish' sits down to my right about an hour before hand. The day before he played extremely aggressive preflop, raising to 12x bb randomly. today though he has been more passive pre, raising to just 3x bb when he opens the pot. Still opening pot with pf raise about 35% of hands. Seems to enjoy shoving on people getting them to lay it down and generally being a bully with fearless bets.

Day prior, he dropped about $1000 on a hand with top pair (jack), VS a flush draw and got drawn out on. He didn't seem to mind much, he knows he is a gambler who donates, but is good humored and also isn't afraid to go all in with huge overbets with marginal hands so he picks up lots of pots from scared money.

He called hero a 'pro' when he sat down, joking kind of, but as I'm a white guy he's not joking as much with me as he does with other Asians, he seems to like bullying the other Asian guys as he probably has more money than them or just cares less. So he probably sees me as a little more conservative or as a more serious player, less likely to just gamble for the fun of it like most of them do. Hero has winning image after taking down big pot with set over an OESD earlier.


OTTH hero is dealt AdQs in CO

1 limper, Villain in hj raises to 3xBB. Hero calls (no 3 bet here, just prefer playing passively against this type of player, but of course could play differently)

5 players to flop.

Flop Qh5d7d

Villain bets $6

Hero raises to $$20

folds to villain who pops it to $60. Hero? Looking for right bet size to get max value, or do we just call ever
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-28-2019 , 10:12 PM
Pre is a huge mistake, the easiest way to take advantage of a wide opening range is 3betting a lot, described villain is probably not folding pre much so just raise a strong range often here.

Is the flop or your hand wrong? AdQs does not have a flush draw on this board unless one of the Queens is also a diamond.
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-28-2019 , 10:57 PM
Sorry should read Qd on flop, flop all diamonds

Yeah, thinking about it, preflop 3 bet was good idea, but was also in a conversation with another player and got distracted, just called
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11-28-2019 , 11:43 PM
Stopped reading after the flat pre.
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11-29-2019 , 12:04 AM
You'll get no argument that I played preflop badly.

As played, would love to hear what people think. Thanks so much!
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 01:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissygolf
Stopped reading after the flat pre.
thanks for the invaluable input chrissygolf!
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 01:28 AM
3b pre, bigger flop, 175/c, shove turn
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 02:19 AM
So even vs described villain I'm not excited once I get 3bet. I'm calling, but I'm not excited. Everyone can see the three diamonds on the board. Fourbetting would be a large mistake.

You talk a lot about how villain plays preflop but not much about post, that would be helpful.
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 02:31 AM
Yeah PF is really bad especially with this hand. AQo is not a hand you want to play multiway, oop, and without the initiative.

As played call his raise and check evaluate turn.
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
So even vs described villain I'm not excited once I get 3bet. I'm calling, but I'm not excited. Everyone can see the three diamonds on the board. Fourbetting would be a large mistake.

You talk a lot about how villain plays preflop but not much about post, that would be helpful.


postflop:

yesterday he bet, was raised, 3 bet and called a massive all in with just a jack on a J87dd board.

Today he overshoved flop (bet, raise, all in) on a guy on an ace high board (heads up pot) and the guy folded an ace and whale didn't show but seemed to suggest he didn't have an ace, just a draw. (I don't speak their language, but usually they seem honest and friendly with each other after pots, and not genuinely sociopathic like in the states). Everyone felt that the guy should have called him and the table consensus was villain had very little). He's not that tricky.

this hand:

my feel in the hand was he wasn't that strong. Most of us here play thinking poker. He plays poker like a pit bull, wanting to take the pot he raised in thru aggression alone. He raised fast and my gut said he didn't have a lot here, like a KdJx or TT. Putting his range in equilab i came out with 80% equity.

I don't want to put too much into that read for the sake of objective discussion, but I feel these live reads should be part of my internal thought process after playing with this guy about 8 hours in 2 days.

My feeling was if he had a weaker flush draw, then to win a big pot I should MAYBE slow play it. I considered just calling flop to let others in with their weaker flush draws (some more fish at table).

On the other hand my queen was likely best hand at table and wanted to protect it from two pair draws etc. Guy to my left (tight passive player) was putting out a call and didn't know I had cards - sorry for not putting this in OP).
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-29-2019 , 04:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
postflop:

yesterday he bet, was raised, 3 bet and called a massive all in with just a jack on a J87dd board.
A super drawy board, I dunno if I would fold a J either

Quote:
Today he overshoved flop (bet, raise, all in) on a guy on an ace high board (heads up pot) and the guy folded an ace and whale didn't show but seemed to suggest he didn't have an ace, just a draw. (I don't speak their language, but usually they seem honest and friendly with each other after pots, and not genuinely sociopathic like in the states). Everyone felt that the guy should have called him and the table consensus was villain had very little). He's not that tricky.

this hand:

my feel in the hand was he wasn't that strong. Most of us here play thinking poker. He plays poker like a pit bull, wanting to take the pot he raised in thru aggression alone. He raised fast and my gut said he didn't have a lot here, like a KdJx or TT. Putting his range in equilab i came out with 80% equity.

I don't want to put too much into that read for the sake of objective discussion, but I feel these live reads should be part of my internal thought process after playing with this guy about 8 hours in 2 days.

My feeling was if he had a weaker flush draw, then to win a big pot I should MAYBE slow play it. I considered just calling flop to let others in with their weaker flush draws (some more fish at table).

On the other hand my queen was likely best hand at table and wanted to protect it from two pair draws etc. Guy to my left (tight passive player) was putting out a call and didn't know I had cards - sorry for not putting this in OP).
ok if you're sure I dunno why you posted it
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-30-2019 , 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
A super drawy board, I dunno if I would fold a J either



ok if you're sure I dunno why you posted it


For his whole stack with top pair? Not my style, but to each their own. Although he was right.


If I'm sure about my read, it still brings up the question of bet sizing. And I'm not sure about his range exactly. So what hands do we want to keep around, and what's the best way to get him to commit his stack on the flop? I think this is the hero's goal given his tendency to stack off with marginal holdings on flop.

Looking back, maybe a smaller bait raise would be the best size, like to $150 or so.
Top pair and NFD against whale Quote
11-30-2019 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by esspoker
For his whole stack with top pair? Not my style, but to each their own. Although he was right.


If I'm sure about my read, it still brings up the question of bet sizing. And I'm not sure about his range exactly. So what hands do we want to keep around, and what's the best way to get him to commit his stack on the flop? I think this is the hero's goal given his tendency to stack off with marginal holdings on flop.

Looking back, maybe a smaller bait raise would be the best size, like to $150 or so.


He played again yesterday and shoved blind preflop with $1000 stack at least 10 hands in a row. Eventually blew through $4000 and left, but came back an hour later and sat at different table.
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