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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 09-17-2014, 10:23 AM   #1
PoppaLarge
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Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

Not played myself, but witnessed. Know both players.

2-100 spread limit (1-2 game with a $100 cap per betting action). Both players pretty deep, 300BB+. The $100 cap makes this a pretty screwy game.

A couple limps including P1 with (he said later) QJ, we'll call him our hero.

Small blind (V) makes it $13. Hero calls. Everybody else folds.

Flop comes QJ8. V bets $17. Hero raises to $40. V semi-tanks, then calls.

Turn comes 8. V leads out for $60. Hero tanks, says "I know you aren't telling me you have an 8," then calls.

River is a 3. V insta-bets $100 (maximum bet) into the pot.

What should hero do? $100 is slightly less than half the pot, but it's the most V can bet. Because of the max bet rule, at this point players are basically playing limit. (In an actual NL game I think the bet sizing would have played out differently.)
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:27 AM   #2
iraisetoomuch
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

"Hero" should raise pre flop.
Raise the flop more, to $65+.

After that the hand sort of breaks down as his range is still pretty much any pair, and pair+straight draw.

Also, is the flop rainbow, or is there a flush draw out there?
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:51 AM   #3
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

Rainbow, if I remember correctly.

RE: bet sizing, obvs you're 150% dead on in an actual NL game. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in an SL game, but to be clear: this is uncapped BI with $100 max bet. The way I see it--and I'm looking for people to help me see it differently--betting like you would in NL creates a monstrous pot control problem. Basically, the vast majority of players either treat the game like NL or feel "safe" that they aren't going to get stacked and chase it like a weak limit game. Also, most of the players are idiots who don't pay attention to SPR or even bet sizing.

So as played:

PF:
2 limps + V raise + BB + H call = $32
Flop:
V cbet + H raise + V call = $80
Turn:
V lead + H call = $120

For a total of $232, and then V throws another $100, giving H 3:1.

With (as you suggested) Hero raise PF (using betting patterns of the two players I've observed):
1 limp + hero $10 + V $30 + BB + hero call = $64
Flop:
V leads for $40, hero has to make it between $100 and $140 (max raise over $40). Mostly likely $140, people like to max bet with solid hands in this game. So $244 in the and V has $100 to call (2.5:1) and with two streets to come the two players are playing limit. If V calls that's $344 going into the turn. If V leads turn does hero fold top two 4.5:1? Can hero fold 6.5:1 on the river?

Like I said, I'm asking because I have yet to see an optimal strategy for this SL game, unless you count nutpeddling.
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Old 09-17-2014, 12:49 PM   #4
iraisetoomuch
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

Your new hand is wrong for a few reasons:
A) Why are we assuming that he will 3bet us? Unless you are telling me his hand (AA/KK)
B) I would have raised bigger the first time around.
C) Why would he donk into us on the flop?
D) The most important consideration... Im folding if Im 3bet as we are crushed in that case.
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Old 09-17-2014, 01:22 PM   #5
WittyName26
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

hero should raise flop much bigger, prob 70-80. as played hero should prob fold turn and should def fold river.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:21 PM   #6
PoppaLarge
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

Witty:

Just wondering how you came up with that number. Basically call the raise and add a pot-sized bet?
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Old 09-17-2014, 10:53 PM   #7
PoppaLarge
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Re: Top 2 on flop in 2-100 SL

Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch View Post
Your new hand is wrong for a few reasons:
A) Why are we assuming that he will 3bet us? Unless you are telling me his hand (AA/KK)
B) I would have raised bigger the first time around.
C) Why would he donk into us on the flop?
D) The most important consideration... Im folding if Im 3bet as we are crushed in that case.
Again, I'm just running it as played.

If V raises pre I think this has to be AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK maybe AQ. Knowing V if he just calls V's preflop raise he's showing up more often with A10-A8 or 10s down for set mining, although set mining sort of sucks with a betting cap.

Part of the reason why I'm posting this hand is to try to determine if the $100 max bet creates a significant difference in strategy or if it just makes for a crappy 1-2 game.
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