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Top 2 facing river shove Top 2 facing river shove

01-19-2014 , 03:56 PM
Hero ($750): I've been at the table for a few hours and have been running good and playing well. I had a good stack when V sat down, he's seen me raise flop and fire turn and river in position against an EP raiser who folded the river so I didn't show but otherwise my image should be pretty TAG postflop, semi TAG pre as I've been limping some hands in position as well as raising.

V ($220): looks to be in his 30's, wearing a hat and hoodie, has a beer and looks like he's either tired or drunk, but not playing crazy. He's mostly been limping pre and generally has been passive, though I've seen him raise a few times pre in the hour or so he's been at the table. From what I could tell his preflop raising range consists mainly of bigger pairs/bigger cards as I'd seen him limp small pairs.

9 handed, V raises UTG +2 to $12, guy to my right who has over $400 calls, I call from CO with 109o.

3 way to the flop of 379 rainbow

V bets $15, folds to me and I call

Turn is a 10, putting a flush draw out there.

V bets $30, I think for 15 seconds and make it $75, he thinks for about 15 seconds and calls.

River is an offsuit 6, he pretty quickly shoves for about $120 (it might have been slightly less, I don't remember the numbers exactly but it was definitely between $100 and $125).

Hero? Thoughts on all streets are welcome, though I probably won't listen to fold pre.
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01-19-2014 , 04:04 PM
You should listen to the fold pre. Overcalling with T9o against a passive player with 100bb who opens in EP is bad. Period.

Aside from that, I like your flop and turn play (although raise should be 80-85). AP, this is a pretty easy call OTR to stack an overpair.
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01-19-2014 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
AP, this is a pretty easy call OTR to stack an overpair.
Villain is not turning his overpair into bluff because somehow he put hero on two pairs or set...
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01-19-2014 , 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar
You should listen to the fold pre. Overcalling with T9o against a passive player with 100bb who opens in EP is bad. Period.

Aside from that, I like your flop and turn play (although raise should be 80-85). AP, this is a pretty easy call OTR to stack an overpair.
Yup. Fold pre for sure.

Based on your description he isn't opening with lower pocket pairs so it's pretty safe to put him on 99+ and call. Beat 24 combos of JJ-AA and lose to the 2 combos of TT/99. Even with 88 in his range it is still an easy call.
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01-19-2014 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neutrogena
Villain is not turning his overpair into bluff because somehow he put hero on two pairs or set...
huh? what are you suggesting? We fold bc villain's range is squarely 77/88?

villain is not turning his overpair into a bluff. He is stacking off with it like most LLSNL players do.
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01-19-2014 , 04:51 PM
If he's stacking off with overpair, he would have done it on turn not on river when one card straight is in.
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01-19-2014 , 09:24 PM
Calling pre is a leak whether you want to hear it or not.

I'm hero calling here because 88 is the only hand he can have since he's passive pre and would limp other hands with an 8 in it like connectors and suited 8x hands and if he did raise those hands pre it would most probably be with a smaller sizing. Lots of draws missed like QJ and busted backdoor flush draws. Lastly a quick shove is usually a bluff more often than a value hand.
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01-19-2014 , 09:46 PM
Absolutely no reason to ever fold the river based on your info. Definitely a river snap. Probably just jams the turn if he somehow has you beat. Strange why he doesn't just shove the turn if he has an overpair.
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01-19-2014 , 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel9861
Calling pre is a leak whether you want to hear it or not.

I'm hero calling here because 88 is the only hand he can have since he's passive pre and would limp other hands with an 8 in it like connectors and suited 8x hands and if he did raise those hands pre it would most probably be with a smaller sizing. Lots of draws missed like QJ and busted backdoor flush draws. Lastly a quick shove is usually a bluff more often than a value hand.
I am not a huge fan of live tells, but I tend to agree with this statement. Although I don't have the largest sample size on comparing hand strengths of quick shoves v slow shoves, the quicker shoves appear to be bluffy or semi-bluffy if done before the river. I shrug and call at this point.

Oh and fold pre brah, definitely -EV to call pre here.
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01-19-2014 , 10:10 PM
If you believe he has jacks or better fold pre and then fold the flop.

If you believe he's drawing then your 1/3rd pot raise on the turn gives him odds to call so I guess you now think he actually has that over-pair.

It seems like you're just clicking buttons and like to play pots. Might as well flip a coin now though you're probably beat.
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01-19-2014 , 10:28 PM
pf is a slight fold, but not nearly as bad as the other posters have made it out to be. You're not getting strict IO, but you have position and on a weakish flop, you can steal this hand away.

As played, I'm not folding top two with this board against a EP raiser. If he raised pf with 77, nice hand.
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