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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 03-12-2019, 09:08 PM   #1
FusilliJerry
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Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

I keep running into spots where V's are super polarized; how do you guys maintain proper frequency in deciding to hero? 2 examples

#1) 5/5/T
H AJ in LJ to 20
CO (Euro grinder 20's; has been aggressive so far but no sd's) call
blinds call; weak passive
FLOP KJ7 [80]
x,x, 50, CO call, bb call
TURN 3 [230]
bb x, I check, Co checks
River 6 [250]
x,I check, CO bets 200, bb folds,
Hero?

7 handed
JT utg1 20
only BTN calls (reg; mostly tight, decent hand-reader; but have seen him bluff, spew, 3x barrel; etc)
Flop QJ9r [40]
x, V 30, H calls
Turn 3x [100]
X,x
River Qh
x, V 75

***So We need to call w/ 30% of range OTR...folding hands like TT,88 and calling with QT and some overpairs we decided to check OTF? 9T, 89, JT etc are all folded? Or should we be calling more in live poker because they are so polarized betting in these spots...(eg this is almost always Qx since hands like KJ/AJ won't go for thin value here
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:28 PM   #2
Garick
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

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Or should we be calling more in live poker because they are so polarized betting in these spots.
No. They are not more polarized. The average LLSNL V is heavily over-weighted to value on river bets. Yes, they are "polarized" in that they are rarely betting second pair for thin value, but they are also way under-bluffing. A river bet is TPGK+ by default, without reads, lines that are standard missed draws (and often even then), etc.

Don't hero more, and fold both of these, imo, though I'd consider turning our NF blocker into a bluff occasionally in hand one and raising.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:41 PM   #3
FusilliJerry
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
No. They are not more polarized. The average LLSNL V is heavily over-weighted to value on river bets. Yes, they are "polarized" in that they are rarely betting second pair for thin value, but they are also way under-bluffing. A river bet is TPGK+ by default, without reads, lines that are standard missed draws (and often even then), etc.

Don't hero more, and fold both of these, imo, though I'd consider turning our NF blocker into a bluff occasionally in hand one and raising.
Hand 1, doesn't having the A OTR make us more inclined to just bluff-catch since we block so many value hands that V is repping?

And why turn our A into a bluff when V is repping a flush or air here? Sets or strong Kx bet turn, and a TPgk isn't betting that river.

Is it flawed logic to call with this combo (and fold lots of other non spade combos like KT, KQ, QJ, etC) since we block flushes and we don't block QT, 89, and other broadways that bricked?
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:49 PM   #4
Garick
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

I'm just saying that we don't have a lot of SDV, but our line does make sense for a NF for certain V types (don't know what your image is) and V sounds like someone who could lay down small flushes sometimes. It's a very high variance play, and I wouldn't use it often. Also I missed that you'd overchecked river.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:28 AM   #5
ChrisV
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

Quote:
Originally Posted by FusilliJerry View Post
I keep running into spots where V's are super polarized; how do you guys maintain proper frequency in deciding to hero? 2 examples

#1) 5/5/T
H AJ in LJ to 20
CO (Euro grinder 20's; has been aggressive so far but no sd's) call
blinds call; weak passive
FLOP KJ7 [80]
x,x, 50, CO call, bb call
TURN 3 [230]
bb x, I check, Co checks
River 6 [250]
x,I check, CO bets 200, bb folds,
Hero?
This cbet is really bad 4 handed. You're just value owning yourself a lot.

I'm calling the river, would likely fold if I didn't hold the A. CO sizing up is a little suspicious because it has to be obvious to him that nobody has very much.

Quote:
7 handed
JT utg1 20
only BTN calls (reg; mostly tight, decent hand-reader; but have seen him bluff, spew, 3x barrel; etc)
Flop QJ9r [40]
x, V 30, H calls
Turn 3x [100]
X,x
River Qh
x, V 75
This is a gross spot but I think I generally fold, the thing is he'll usually need no SDV to bluff here but there aren't that many hands which bet flop with no SDV.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:41 AM   #6
RoadtoPro
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

grunching.

Both hands I can see why you'd want to hero, especially considering that's it's 5/5, rather than 1/2 for example. I tend to be better at bluff-catching at the moment since I'm usually in tune with how everyone's playing and my gut tends to be right more often than not.

That being said, without any reads/gut feelings I would tank fold both hands. Check flop hand one imo. C-betting is kind of turning your hand into a bluff. There are a lot of good turns for you to barrel on since you have the Ace of spades but c/c is better than b/f imo. Having the initiative in the hand is rather irrelevant 4 ways here.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:54 AM   #7
Minatorr
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Re: Too much hero'ing at 5/5? MDF help

i'd call both hands vs aggro regs that can barrel/hand-read/attack capped ranges and we are near the top of our range/have good blockers. probably a little closer vs unknowns.

h1 is a x otf
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