Thin Value or Check vs TAG ???? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Thin Value or Check vs TAG ????

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02-25-2018 , 08:43 AM

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

(BTN)$750Hero-J

raises $10

(SB)$500V1-calls $10

(BB)$450V2- calls $10

Both villains are tag fish

POT $30

FLOP- Q

V1- checks

V2- checks

Hero- cbets $25
Went on the bigger side since stacks are deeper. Both villains are sticky fish so I want to get max value.

V1- calls $25

V2- folds

POT=$80

TURN-A

V1- donks $55

Hero- calls $55

POT=$190

RIVER-3

V1- checks

Hero- ???????????

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02-25-2018 , 02:56 PM

Case2

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,303

Tag fish isn't a particularly useful description. (I assumed it meant they were weak/tight, but later you say they're sticky.) It helps if you specifically describe V's flaws rather than using shorthand that makes perfect sense to you but may be meaningless (or, worse, have a different interpretation) to others.

When V checks the river, I think we have the green light to extract some value. I'd keep it on the smaller side so V can call wide. b/f 100.

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02-25-2018 , 03:03 PM

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

typical 1/2 player

hes abc tag

no fancy moves

practically plays with his cards face up

Last edited by Scooo13zzz; 02-25-2018 at 03:22 PM.

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02-25-2018 , 03:41 PM

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,092

Really it's all about how we read the donk bet. Could he have something like 1 pair + diamond draw? Naked diamond draw? 1 pair + straight draw? It's hard to imagine them calling the flop with a naked A. I expect 2 pair to be good here a lot, but I don't see what V has that can call this we beat. Unless they are either bad enough to have made it this far with Ax or call a $65 bet with a Q, I'm content to check this down.

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02-25-2018 , 04:04 PM

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Show it down and beat AT or lose to Q3dd or whatever. You got two streets post and a showdown one way or another which is pretty good w J9 on this board.

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02-25-2018 , 05:13 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,764

TAG is tight aggressive; ABC is basic straightforward; sticky is passive but won't fold. However, if he's ABC, bet/fold $75. If he's ABC and slightly sticky, he'll call with worse. I highly doubt he's raising w/o a monster.

I don't mind a check, either, if he'll check better than J9 on this river.

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02-25-2018 , 05:16 PM

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

a tag can still be abc

unlike a competent tag who can switch up and put you in tough spots

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02-25-2018 , 05:23 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,764

LOL. So he's a TAG fish who plays ABC but is sticky? Just muck.

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02-25-2018 , 05:31 PM

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

I mean yeah lol

hes tight plays abc poker ...plays his hands aggro

can over value them

its 1/2 guys lets not psychoanalyze the player type here

I'm not playing 5-10

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02-25-2018 , 06:06 PM

#10

Case2

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,303

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooo13zzz

I mean yeah lol

hes tight plays abc poker ...plays his hands aggro

can over value them

its 1/2 guys lets not psychoanalyze the player type here

Much better read description.

We're not trying to analyze the player, but saying "tag fish" is basically exactly as useful as saying "Urffle ding biddle wums" in terms of getting good advice.

Crushing LLSNL requires getting very good at figuring out what mistakes V's are making and then exploiting them.

If you give sloppy reads, you're going to get sloppy advice.

If your thinking about reads at the table is sloppy, you're going to make sloppy decisions.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but reads are huge. It's not just semantics to work towards giving precise descriptions.

Last edited by Case2; 02-25-2018 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Misspelled "Urffle"

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02-25-2018 , 06:09 PM

#11

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

no I understand appreciate the opinions

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02-25-2018 , 06:18 PM

#12

LordRiverRat

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 3,675

The turn donk and river check on a brick river gave away the strength of villain's hand. Unless he's doing some super weird trap line, I highly doubt he's gonna let you see a free showdown if he had a better hand than you.

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02-25-2018 , 07:53 PM

#13

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,764

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooo13zzz

I mean yeah lol

hes tight plays abc poker ...plays his hands aggro

can over value them

its 1/2 guys lets not psychoanalyze the player type here

I'm not playing 5-10

Much better, and reads are important, even at 1/2.

I definitely like the $75/fold, but I liked it more when sticky was in his description. Check is OK if any doubt about his bluffing ability here.

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02-25-2018 , 09:35 PM

#14

Scooo13zzz

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 408

Spoiler:

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