I'm transitioning from a winning online player at 100NL (100k hands at 7bb/100) and wondering if bet-folding is still the best play at LLSNL or are we leaving value on the table by checking from OOP?


Should I just never assume V is going to raise the turn with bluffs and always bet-fold?
How important is it to keep the betting lead since live players are such showdown monkeys?


example 1
V is an unknown 40's white guy w/ sunglasses;
H UTG 25 AdQh
V in mp calls [800 eff] and bb calls
Flop AT7ssx [75]
I bet 50, mp calls HU
Turn 9x [175]
I check, V bets 100, I call
River 5x [275]
I check, V checks back and mucks



example 2
V on BTN is 50's asian guy; loose and not overly aggressive
KsQd utg 25
mp and btn call
Flop K58ddx [80]
H 50, only btn call HU
Turn 8x [180]
H check, btn snap bets 90
We call; raise here?
River 7h [360]
H check , V checks back

Im assuming this is 2/5?

Hand 1 you got 2 nice streets of value with 1 pair so the result was good but I would have kept the lead on the turn and x the river. A lot of draws out there and a bunch of pair+straight draws. I would bet 150 on the turn.

Hand 2 I would probably fold KQo UTG unless it was a weaker table. Rest looks standard. When the 2nd high card pairs you are supposed to x and pot control. When someone makes a fast bet they are usually on a draw.

Not sure why you are checking both turns? I'm betting for fat value both times, and eval rivers.
B/f is still superior read less given the limited amount of bluff raising esp on later streets

Villain dependent but at 2/5, I see lots of players floating flop cbets IP with air/MPs etc that will bet the turn if you check because “you gave up”.

If their range is quite wide and the board is not too wet, wouldn’t a turn check to induce one more bet be as good an option as leading?


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Hand 1 check seems best to me. This card favors villain, there are a lot of bad rivers and we don’t want three streets with this hand even on brick rivers probably. Well played, IMO.

Hand 2 could go either way. I think the check is ok. I wouldn’t check AK/AA/8x though. You block some of the hands you want to call and having the Qd makes your hand slightly less vulnerable. Villain can definitely have 8x and like the last hand we probably don’t want three streets and should find a check on either turn or river.

From a results oriented perspective both of these hands went well and validate your checks. You got a second street by checking from hands that may not have called a bet.

It's tough coming from an aggressive online environment. My brain is just so conditioned into taking balanced lines vs unknown players. I think I am obviously leveling myself into giving these live players way too much credit.

Hand #1 - I would bet this 80% OTT, but against a complete unknown w/ a pretty large stack, I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed he was possibly aggro and took a more passive route.
We also don't block a ton of bluffs like spades, and KJ, Jx gutters, etc

Hand #2 - I think this is standard especially w/ Q. Should we not give V a chance to bluff his gutters, fd's, etc?

Hand 1) checking is definitely not awful here. I doubt the difference in EV is different for either option since a lot of bad players will bet their A4o for “protection”, so you get value anyway with less risk (it is less reward though). But as I mentioned, the difference won’t be too big since you’re checking river anyway.

Hand 2) not a fan of having this hand in your open range if you have to use a 5x size from EP. KQo OOP is a great way to get yourself boned in 6 way lolive poker pots.

As played I prefer to downbet turn and river. Even with the K and the Qd, his most likely hands are a weaker K or some sort of draw. So we can bet 70 on turn and maybe squeeze a little value on some rivers. It’s good to get in the habit of finding how you can bet bet bet against these typical live fish who treat the initial open raise as an entry fee to the pot.


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I think the live game has changed immensely over the years.

Before, it was mostly just bet/fold and print monies against morans. "Oh, you're a tight player who raised UTG at a 10 handed table and are continuing to bet 4 fricken streets in a row OOP on an Ace high board? I think you're bluffing / my two pair might eventually get there".

But now, you'll probably make more by checking and inducing bluffs / induce overvalue / not blowing away poor draws / deleveraging the pot / etc.

Hand 1 is a perfect example of this. Dude obviously had nothing. And yet $100 went in on the turn. Very good chance that $100 doesn't go into the pot with a bet and the hand often just ends.

In HU situations OOP, if you checked either the flop or turn with TP you probably wouldn't be too far off a decent result.

Gassuming1/3NLstakesG