We're 6-7 handed, UTG+1 raises to 15, 2 callers, and we call in the BB.

Flop is AQ5r, it checks to the original raiser who puts out a c-bet of around 2/3 pot.... what hands are we c/r as a bluff here?

Lets say same situation but flop is:

Ah Qh 5s

Which hands are we choosing as bluff c/r if any and what is the proper value to bluff ratio if we checkraise pot?

Maybe this is the wrong forum but I'm curious.

EDIT: Assume both players are deep, so 200+ bbs.

I think the big problem we run into, is if we want to c/r bluffs on either board is that we're moving our very strongest possible hands (55, maybe some AQ) into our c/r value range. This creates a weaker calling range on flop, that has a lot of weak Ax that can't stand 3 streets unimproved very often. Us being 200+ BB deep and having a very noticeable top-end nutted hands disadvantage (we should never hold AA/QQ) is also a strong reason to not have a c/r range on either board. I would generally play my continue range purely as a call on AQ5r.

But assuming we're trying to build a c/r range on each board, here's what I think would be reasonable :

On AQ5r : { 55, AQs, JTs with BDFD, KJs with BDFD, some 43s with BDFD if we have it }
On Ah Qh 5s : { 55, AQs, KhJx, KhTh, JhTh, 6h5h, 5h4h }

>I would generally play my continue range purely as a call on AQ5r.

This is what I ended up doing, and the specific hand in question was A5dd just for the mention. I just felt very passive playing it like this, but looking back I think there's at least some case to be made for all hands being played as calls here... it just felt very weird playing a hand as strong as 2 pair as a c/c on 2 streets (turn was an offsuit 8)... not necessarily bad, but weird.

Would you be c/r any bluffs on the flush board?

This is what I ended up doing, and the specific hand in question was A5dd just for the mention. I just felt very passive playing it like this, but looking back I think there's at least some case to be made for all hands being played as calls here... it just felt very weird playing a hand as strong as 2 pair as a c/c on 2 streets (turn was an offsuit 8)... not necessarily bad, but weird.

Would you be c/r any bluffs on the flush board?

Yeah there is no hand to raise here imo. This is best played as a float. The flush board is completely different

Any reads?

In general, if a guy who raised in EP is cbetting into 3 or more opponents on this board my flat out bluff (i.e. not including semi-bluffs) check/raise range is 0%.

Gnosurprise,I'msureG

Against decent players, I like to play my entire range as a x/c on an AQ5 flop. So even if I flop bottom set, that's still a x/c.

But against fish and bad regs (ie. 95% of players at 1/3), I'm just going to x/r all my 2pr+, x/c my Ax and Qx for 1 street, and fold my entire range to a double barrel. It sounds super exploitable because it is. That's how we should be playing at 1/3 live.

So, let's take a closer look in that A5dd hand, assuming a "clean" runout.

Flop (~$55 in pot after rake, $600 behind) : AQ5r. We'll call it As Qd 5h for the sake of this demonstration. UTG+1 bets $40. We check/raise to $100.

At this point, if we were bluffing, we're risking $100 to win $95. MDF dictates V must defend at least 48.7% of his flop betting range.

Villain's MDF Frequency = (Our Reward) / (Our Risk + Our Reward) = 95/195 = 48.7%

Turn ($255) : 4c. We bet $150. V must defend at least 63.0% of his flop bet/call
River ($555) : 4h. We shove for $350. V must defend 61.3% of the range he's gotten to this point with.

(MDF on Flop) * (MDF on turn) * (MDF on river) = (.487)(.63)(.613) = .188. Villain only has to call down all the way with the top 18.8% of his flop betting range. However you chunk out the flop c/r, turn bet & river shove, it pretty much comes out to this number.

Now we need to give him a PFR range, and decide what he's betting on the flop, combinatorically. My LJ opening range, live & deep, would be something like {Pocket pairs, AJ+, KQ, Suited broadways, A4s+, T9s-65s, K9s-J9s}, give or take a few depending on the table. The opening range isn't so important, other than to give him a flop betting range.

If he bets any Ax or better for value on the flop, his flop value betting range is : AA (1), QQ (3), 55 (1), AQ (6), A5s (1), AK (8), AJ (8), ATs-A6s (10 combos total), for a total of 38 value combinations. He could also use KJs/KTs/JTs as bluffs for 12 bluff combinations, he's probably going to have difficulty building in many bluffs betting flop 4-ways. A4s gets blocked by this board runout.

So he bets flop with 50 combinations, and has to defend a total of 18.8% of those combinations to our c/r flop, barrel turn, shove river line. That's 9.4, rounded up to 10 combinations. AQ & sets are 11 combinations. So, if our opponent is playing solid theoretical MDF, we're literally just completely value owning ourself if we take such a line with A5s, or even with AQ! With 55, it becomes a good value line, since there's 9 combinations of AQ to get value from, versus 3 each of AA/QQ.

This is a good demonstration of the power of top-end / nut advantage in deep stacked situations. You may be able to get a good amount of value with A5 here, but you can't really get too aggressive, unfortunately. Far too many hands beat you, and being too aggressive will isolate you against the very strongest portions of your opponent's range. Let him barrel some bluffs or value bet some AK/AJ for you, they'll likely fold if you c/r turn.

This is a good point. I notice that PioSolver does like to x/r bottom set on an AQ5r flop, but the difficulty is that in order to balance that out with bluffs, you have to be very good at mixing. You have to make sure that you're turning hands like JT/KJ/KT/QT into bluffs at a very small frequency each, so as to avoid overbluffing.

For simplicity, it's easier to just avoid having a x/r range against good players on an AQ5r flop. But in theory, yes, we should be x/r'ing bottom set whilst also slowplaying most of our 2pr here.