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Old 01-04-2019, 05:00 PM   #1
MikeStarr
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Thats a big bet, Sir

2/5NL

3 limpers. SB competes. I check Kh7h in the BB.

Flop ($25) 7d5h4h. SB checks. I bet $20. It folds to LP who calls. Then SB check raises to $90. I call and we are HU

Turn ($225) Ks. He shoves $600 effective. WTF? What do you put him on? Call or fold?

Villain is a 40 year old white guy who seems to have some kind of professional type job. He plays maybe twice a week. Friendly intelligent guy. He plays kinda TAGish and decent although Ive seen him make what I would call some dumb calls also like calling raises in LP with 87o. He once called my UTG raise with A8o in the BB after 3 other callers.....so maybe hes not actually all that decent....lol

Ive never seen him make any crazy bluffs though.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:15 PM   #2
Javanewt
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Ugh. Just fold vs. description unless you feel like gambling. It looks like a flopped straight or set trying (stupidly) to protect. Maybe two pair, but I doubt it.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:20 PM   #3
Garick
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Call. Expect to see a lot of NFDs. Sounds like this guy read Super System and didn't quite get it. Some sets or other 2p in there as well, but we beat all the other 2p.

Edit: didn't consider straights. There could be a few in his range, I guess. I'm still calling. We have 6th nuts and a nice draw to the second nuts to fall back on.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:25 PM   #4
weirdmonkey
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Fodl.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:31 PM   #5
canadiasian
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

99% chance it is 8h6h.

1% chance it is 86.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:38 PM   #6
DumbosTrunk
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

This dumbo doesn't know how to play poker except "OMG I HAVE DA NUTZ MUST JAMM ALL TURNS BEFORE FLUSH GETS THERE!!!!!" Fold.

Edit: unless you've seen him play combo draws this way in the past.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:47 PM   #7
venice10
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

This type of villain is just not shoving with a FD very often. This is more often a "I don't want you to draw on me, so go away" bet. You're too often behind and aren't getting the odds to call. I'd fold.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:52 PM   #8
MikeStarr
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10 View Post
This type of villain is just not shoving with a FD very often. This is more often a "I don't want you to draw on me, so go away" bet. You're too often behind and aren't getting the odds to call. I'd fold.
I agree with that and doubt he has a FD especially when I have one, but 2 pair seems like it falls in that "I dont want you to hit the flush on me" category.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:53 PM   #9
DumbosTrunk
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I agree with that and doubt he has a FD especially when I have one, but 2 pair seems like it falls in that "I dont want you to hit the flush on me" category.
He just bet $600. He doesn't have flopped two pair unless he's a spazz.
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Old 01-04-2019, 05:54 PM   #10
MikeStarr
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
He just bet $600. He doesn't have two pair unless he's a spazz.
He bet $600. Id say hes a spazz no matter what he has.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:05 PM   #11
spikeraw22
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Never drawing dead, but as I do the math I see that you need him to have a lot more flush draws than I thought. Especially since he has the nfd a lot when he does.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:37 PM   #12
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

I think it’s a call. I find the ‘business guy’ often over rolled for the game and accordingly spazzy and randomly aggro. This could be 2p, NFD, set, straight, 2 unders.... I think calling is firmly +EV, though I may puss out and fold in game.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:47 PM   #13
c0rnBr34d
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

It's blind vs blind in a limped pot. Ranges are literally ATC. V hasn't shown us anything like this behavior before. V has exactly 86 and he's scared of the hearts. We lost $95 in a limped pot with a monster hand. Sucks but I fold. We don't have odds to draw against this ridiculous sizing.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:57 PM   #14
DrChesspain
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by twitcherroo View Post
I think it’s a call. I find the ‘business guy’ often over rolled for the game and accordingly spazzy and randomly aggro.
Did you even see the OP's read on Villain?
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:13 PM   #15
Lurshy
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

How should he perceive you based on history? Does he think you'll call loose so he can over bet for value? Would he overbet strongish but vulnerable hands cause he doesnt want you to draw get there?

Fwiw, I make the call if I think he is trying blow me off the hand, especially with my redraws which should (mostly) all be live if I am behind.

But im sticky that way, as an over rolled business guy that plays twice a month.
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:19 PM   #16
canadiasian
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

"To live, you must be willing to die."
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:37 PM   #17
Havick
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
This dumbo doesn't know how to play poker except "OMG I HAVE DA NUTZ MUST JAMM ALL TURNS BEFORE FLUSH GETS THERE!!!!!" Fold.

Edit: unless you've seen him play combo draws this way in the past.
This.

Villain isn't playing a draw here.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:09 PM   #18
WereBeer
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

I think this is never a draw. Big question is whether he does this with 2 pairs or not. If yes, snap call, if not, snap fold. In game I wimp out.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:24 PM   #19
Avaritia
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Pretty gross tbh
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:48 PM   #20
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

I don't think we can say it's an easy fold. Yeah, the guy is piling $700 into a limped pot and we don't have the nuts, but we have almost 30% equity against the nuts. We need 42% equity, which works out to needing him to have one 2P/non-nut combo draw combo for every three straight combos.

We can't say it's never a draw, either, or have you guys never seen someone overbet jam a combo draw like Ah6h here? I have multiple times and I wouldn't be surprised by such a hand.

I am calling. I'm pretty curious what he has.
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Old 01-04-2019, 09:43 PM   #21
Minatorr
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

I would check flop

Ap turn i call, he has some worse value here once every blue moon and folding would be a huge disaster, we have way too many outs even vs the nuts. your perceived range here is very weak here as well (although you should have a lot of monsters flatting flop x/r).
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:27 AM   #22
mikko
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr View Post
I would check flop

Ap turn i call, he has some worse value here once every blue moon and folding would be a huge disaster, we have way too many outs even vs the nuts. your perceived range here is very weak here as well (although you should have a lot of monsters flatting flop x/r).
How is his range perceived weak? We just lead and called big raise on flop?

As played. YOLO

Against this sizing. We likely only need to defend the nuts.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:29 AM   #23
mikko
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

This is best hand history posted in long while. I hope we get to see the ending.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:02 AM   #24
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Gross but not folding.
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:51 AM   #25
Minatorr
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Re: Thats a big bet, Sir

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikko View Post
How is his range perceived weak? We just lead and called big raise on flop?

As played. YOLO

Against this sizing. We likely only need to defend the nuts.
Many players who flat here are relatively capped or at least are perceived to be capped

Ie they reraise sets at a very high freq and also straights due to board texture, so when they flat their flatting range is capped to draws/pair + fd/combo draws/ maybe some weak two pairs. Or at least they/you expect that from a V

Whether or not OP flats his entire continuing range, whether he mixes, or just flats weak hands and 3bs sets+ is a different story (actual range vs perceived range)
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