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Terrible turn check and river give up. Terrible turn check and river give up.

02-12-2018 , 11:31 AM
I hate how I played this hand.

Private game playing 2/4, normally is 1/2 and plays pretty passive. 6 handed.

Villain open limps, ~$800. Seemed LAGgy at first but now I think he has no clue what he is doing. Overvalues some hands, underreps strong hands, spazzy, all over the map so far. Has a very high VPIP. Have seen him call down light and chase draws. Previously bet turn and river with Q high (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...n-oop-1703662/)

Hero on the button with $600, raises with 56 to $16. Blinds fold and villain calls.


Flop is 9QA ($38)

Villain checks, Hero bets $19. Villain calls.

Turn is 8 ($76)

EDIT: Villain checks. I pick up a flush draw and a gutter, so this is a spot to barrel. Hero ignores this and checks.

River is 9

Hero checks, villain bets the pot. Hero folds.

I really hate that I didn't barrel the turn. (56 is pretty light to be raising with, but I was in position and the villains were pretty weak. This villain is better to just play strong hands and value hammer him. Add it to the heap of things I screwed up, but I did have a good night against this villain in particular when I played better spots.) There are at least 5 good reasons to barrel here. After pre and flop action, am I being overly harsh believing that checking the turn is really, really terrible?

Last edited by dmccoy87; 02-12-2018 at 11:47 AM.
Terrible turn check and river give up. Quote
02-12-2018 , 11:45 AM
Turn action is confused. V can't check it back OOP.

Did you expect V to fold to your raise pre? If not, you shouldn't be raising. You can probably expect this V to pay you off if you hit, so limping behind becomes an attractive option. If he's mostly going to call your raise, all you've done is put more money in the pot with a likely worse hand and reduced your IO. Against a more competent V, you also change the playing dynamics, but this guy doesn't sound like the right target for that.

I don't at all think turn is an obvious bet. "Have seen him call down light and chase draws" is not your preferred bluffing target. In this case, checking it back and getting paid if you hit may well be more profitable than attempting to move someone who can station off a hand in which they appear to have some interest.

I think a turn barrel may also have merit, but checking back against described V certainly does too.

OOP, I think a turn barrel makes more sense. IP, our bet reopens the action. OOP, that's not true, so our bet, in addition to perhaps winning immediately, can also set the price for our draw.

Obvious river fold is obvious.
Terrible turn check and river give up. Quote
02-12-2018 , 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case2
Turn action is confused. V can't check it back OOP.

Did you expect V to fold to your raise pre? If not, you shouldn't be raising. You can probably expect this V to pay you off if you hit, so limping behind becomes an attractive option. If he's mostly going to call your raise, all you've done is put more money in the pot with a likely worse hand and reduced your IO. Against a more competent V, you also change the playing dynamics, but this guy doesn't sound like the right target for that.

I don't at all think turn is an obvious bet. "Have seen him call down light and chase draws" is not your preferred bluffing target. In this case, checking it back and getting paid if you hit may well be more profitable than attempting to move someone who can station off a hand in which they appear to have some interest.

I think a turn barrel may also have merit, but checking back against described V certainly does too.

OOP, I think a turn barrel makes more sense. IP, our bet reopens the action. OOP, that's not true, so our bet, in addition to perhaps winning immediately, can also set the price for our draw.

Obvious river fold is obvious.
I didn't expect villain to fold pre, but I was confident that the blinds would fold most of their range. I wanted to isolate the villain and exploit him.

I think I did underestimate the value of checking back on the turn, so glad to have a sanity check here. Maybe it is just results based thinking, since he was pretty easy to exploit all night and this was one of the only hands he won a pot against me.
Terrible turn check and river give up. Quote
02-12-2018 , 12:19 PM
I'd iso with a hand like AX; something that has showdown value, but that is vulnerable and unlikely to do well against multiple opponents.

65s has no showdown value and does very well against multiple opponents. It's the wrong sort of hand to attempt to isolate this guy. You're killing your IO by both reducing the number of victims and increasing the initial bet. I don't think you're getting enough additional FE to compensate for that loss.

Be flexible in your exploits. Some hands lend themselves to the play you made here; others lend themselves to different techniques. Look for synergies between your holding and the various options.
Terrible turn check and river give up. Quote
02-12-2018 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case2
I'd iso with a hand like AX; something that has showdown value, but that is vulnerable and unlikely to do well against multiple opponents.

65s has no showdown value and does very well against multiple opponents. It's the wrong sort of hand to attempt to isolate this guy. You're killing your IO by both reducing the number of victims and increasing the initial bet. I don't think you're getting enough additional FE to compensate for that loss.

Be flexible in your exploits. Some hands lend themselves to the play you made here; others lend themselves to different techniques. Look for synergies between your holding and the various options.
I agree 100%, 56s was just too light.
Terrible turn check and river give up. Quote

      
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