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Old 11-12-2016, 06:52 AM   #176
neverclassy
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

2/5 Guy open from mp to 25, call in LP from tight rec player. Hero calls in BB with 88. Flop J89dd original raiser cbets 40. Tight rec raises to 140, hero flats, original raiser folds. Turn Ah, hero checks, V bets 225, H calls. River Qd Hero ships 600 effective, V snap folds pocket jacks face up.
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Old 11-12-2016, 07:26 AM   #177
7weeks2days
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

TAG reg (covers) raises to 35 from mp, hero(2500) calls in lp w/ T9hh, button, sb and bb call (these villains have somewhere between 800 and 1500). Flop is Q86r no heart, checks to TAG reg who bets 90, hero raises to 220, folds to tag reg who calls. Turn 5h. V checks hero bets 350, v calls. river 4 v bets 500, hero folds.

Hero had a clean image. I thought raising otf/ betting ott would make villain fold basically everything but sets. Should i be checking back ott? At worst the raise otf lets me realize my equity which seems good, but because of the small raise size he may not be folding one pair hands which is why I bet again ott. If i was raised otf by a tag reg and then they bet ott again I think I would be folding all of my one pair hands. I dont think I am raising otf with anything for value.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:05 PM   #178
Alexandar
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by neverclassy View Post
2/5 Guy open from mp to 25, call in LP from tight rec player. Hero calls in BB with 88. Flop J89dd original raiser cbets 40. Tight rec raises to 140, hero flats, original raiser folds. Turn Ah, hero checks, V bets 225, H calls. River Qd Hero ships 600 effective, V snap folds pocket jacks face up.
This is the epitome, so sick, well played.

Pure hard edge
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Old 11-12-2016, 02:27 PM   #179
Avaritia
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days View Post
TAG reg (covers) raises to 35 from mp, hero(2500) calls in lp w/ T9hh, button, sb and bb call (these villains have somewhere between 800 and 1500). Flop is Q86r no heart, checks to TAG reg who bets 90, hero raises to 220, folds to tag reg who calls. Turn 5h. V checks hero bets 350, v calls. river 4 v bets 500, hero folds.
It's not bad, I'd like it more with one otf ofc.

I lately have just been taking my decent equity with "real" hands (double gutter is a real hand) and pushing my equity with sh*t hands with potential to turn equity. So I'd call this flop most often.

Basically I'd prefer to raise J72 bc we have more sets and we have no equity (so we don't mind a flop 3b from others/villain)

I think your sizing is fine bc you are specifically folding out A high. I take my free card ott when villain let's us know he's going to station. Basically villains never fold turn when they call flop raise here. They might fold to river barrel, might.

His river lead is pretty bad with whatever he has.
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:43 PM   #180
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days View Post
If i was raised otf by a tag reg and then they bet ott again I think I would be folding all of my one pair hands. I dont think I am raising otf with anything for value.
I far Far FAR prefer flatting flop. Just imagine how much more sinister/profitable active turn+ev lines would appear on Q865r. It also makes things very tough on OOP when you keep eff stacks deeper - you can tailor your line better toward V tendencies as well keeping both ranges wider/pot smaller heading to the turn which should in theory give you more FE later in the hand if you want to lean on it.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:19 PM   #181
Alexandar
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days View Post
TAG reg (covers) raises to 35 from mp, hero(2500) calls in lp w/ T9hh, button, sb and bb call (these villains have somewhere between 800 and 1500). Flop is Q86r no heart, checks to TAG reg who bets 90, hero raises to 220, folds to tag reg who calls. Turn 5h. V checks hero bets 350, v calls. river 4 v bets 500, hero folds.

Hero had a clean image. I thought raising otf/ betting ott would make villain fold basically everything but sets. Should i be checking back ott? At worst the raise otf lets me realize my equity which seems good, but because of the small raise size he may not be folding one pair hands which is why I bet again ott. If i was raised otf by a tag reg and then they bet ott again I think I would be folding all of my one pair hands. I dont think I am raising otf with anything for value.
I would 3b prebet sometimes pre its a decent spot.

when your raise is called on a dry flop like this villian doesnt have many hands that fold brick turns. Not saying betting is bad because its not with our new equity, but just food for thought.

i think it may be Much better in this spot to flat flop and raise turn. In general, i find the tighter you are preflop and flop, and the more aggro you become on later streets, the better, for Many reasons.


edit: we didnt turn new equity , i didnt see that flop contained no heart, so yea i wouldnt double barrel
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:28 PM   #182
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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Originally Posted by Alexandar View Post
I would 3b prebet sometimes pre its a decent spot.

when your raise is called on a dry flop like this villian doesnt have many hands that fold brick turns. Not saying betting is bad because its not with our new equity, but just food for thought.

i think it may be Much better in this spot to flat flop and raise turn. In general, i find the tighter you are preflop and flop, and the more aggro you become on later streets, the better, for Many reasons.


edit: we didnt turn new equity , i didnt see that flop contained no heart, so yea i wouldnt double barrel
Initially I was raising otf to realize my equity. But then I thought since I went so small otf it would take one more decent sized barrel to fold out one pair hands which is why I felt I should bet again. I guess if I'm going to raise otf I should either go a bit bigger to get the folds I want or just take my free turn/river.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:32 PM   #183
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
I far Far FAR prefer flatting flop. Just imagine how much more sinister/profitable active turn+ev lines would appear on Q865r. It also makes things very tough on OOP when you keep eff stacks deeper - you can tailor your line better toward V tendencies as well keeping both ranges wider/pot smaller heading to the turn which should in theory give you more FE later in the hand if you want to lean on it.
I guess if I am the only caller yes but if anyone else comes along then I probably just play bingo. Plus bluff raising ott would be super expensive. Probably just s spot I should be playing my equity. Even if I don't plan on betting the turn raising the flop small to realize equity doesn't seem all that bad.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:34 PM   #184
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7weeks2days View Post
Initially I was raising otf to realize my equity. But then I thought since I went so small otf it would take one more decent sized barrel to fold out one pair hands which is why I felt I should bet again. I guess if I'm going to raise otf I should either go a bit bigger to get the folds I want or just take my free turn/river.
You playing value like this ever?
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:38 PM   #185
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

bluff raising turn is basically the same cost to us as bluffraising flop and double barreling turn (you paid 220+350=570, calling flop =90+500 or so to raise his $200 turn bet. In addition, you can get checked to as you now credibly rep sets (whereas raising a dry flop, much less so)
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:57 PM   #186
7weeks2days
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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You playing value like this ever?
No. but I think I'm going to start to for this reason. If I were to get raised in this mw deep spot by an unknown seeming tag who's only shown down winners I would probably be folding all my one pair hands either otf (although I might peel because of the small sizing), but certainly be folding ott.

That's why I thought it was a good spot to raise. Even when ranges get super narrow and hands don't make sense in spots like this it's generally nutted and for value because what kind of idiot is raising draws mw in a spot like this?
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Old 11-13-2016, 03:54 AM   #187
whs1919
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Started playing live 1/2 recently. Game is loose passive with a couple of tight players sitting with bigger stacks mixed in. I have a strong image, my raise size is higher than most players so they typical give me credit. So far when I get to showdown I have it. Villain is sitting to my left and in the 2.5 hrs we have played has been pretty tight, he plays pretty face up and will not get it in unless he has the nuts, he is protecting his big stack. New player on my right who is also the card room manager gets a live 5 going. Me and another player keep it going.

Hero effective stack (260)

Pre: Hero UTG straddles 5, Villain UTG+1 calls, 4 more callers including the two to my right. Hero makes it 55 to go. Villain calls, the rest fold.

Flop: Kh 10h 4s (Pot 128) Hero bets 85, Villain thinks for a bit and calls.

Turn: Kh 10h 4s 10s (Pot 298) Hero ships 120, Villain tanks for about 2 mins.

Finally folds showing pocket queens. Hero shows the bluff to put him on tilt lol.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:27 AM   #188
Amanaplan
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Seems reasonable. Could bet a touch less otf and make your shove a little richer in FE but all in all repping AK on a board good for AK is gonna fold a lot of better hands - Still, shallowish, and with a front door FD, you really need to know your man as it's notoriously harder to find the FE you need even in a spot where it's almost impossible for you to have a FD for V to bluff catch - anyways... what were you holding? A in hand would help, a Q or a J in hand not so much.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:59 AM   #189
whs1919
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Seems reasonable. Could bet a touch less otf and make your shove a little richer in FE but all in all repping AK on a board good for AK is gonna fold a lot of better hands - Still, shallowish, and with a front door FD, you really need to know your man as it's notoriously harder to find the FE you need even in a spot where it's almost impossible for you to have a FD for V to bluff catch - anyways... what were you holding? A in hand would help, a Q or a J in hand not so much.
My hand would have helped. Hero was holding Ah6d.
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Old 11-14-2016, 08:40 AM   #190
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

1/2 ~$200 effective
V has been playing somewhat odd. As in he's shown down hands you wouldn't think he should have and claimed some big folds. Not sure what it means at this point but he's taken some decidedly non-standard lines.

limp, Hero limps Jd9d, V $7 from the BB, call, Hero calls

Flop Q8d3 V $15, fold, Hero calls as a float with gutshot + bd flush
Turn 4 V check, Hero check
River A V check, Hero $35

Why it's a good bluff: V has shown weakness twice + the weak open limits his holding and of course the A is always a good card to bluff at right?

Why it's bad: even though V has claimed some biggish folds his thought process is tough to pin down and we don't know he's capable of folding TT in this spot. Our line doesn't rep a whole lot of anything in particular and in some ways the A makes our hand look more like a bluff since we'd probably check back weak Qs if we took this line

V tanks and says "I think you hit that Ace on the end"
Spoiler:
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Old 11-14-2016, 03:35 PM   #191
gobbledygeek
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

These are two I did on my recent Vegas trip, both at Golden Nugget 1/2 NL (different sessions). One worked, one didn't (so I'm guessing I came out ahead).


H1:

Folded to me in CO, I raise K6dd, called by younger guy in the BB who has been playing tight. Earlier I struggled with a river decision on a J2274 runout when a random lady called my flop bet, then led the turn/river when I checked to her (I struggled folded the river and he asks "J?"). He's complaining about not getting hands, and has also made some struggling folds tonight too (he's trying to do his best to not pay off anyone). We've played for an hour together, and none of us has gotten out-of-line.

KT3r flop, I check behind. Jr turn, he $15 into $15, I call (meh, but can't fold after my flop play, right?). Ar river, he bets $10 into $30. Lolz, I actually go to insta-muck but catch myself, and then raise to $35 (with my honest initial reaction of mucking now hopefully looking like some pretty sad hollywooding).


H2:

I'm up $100 after an hour of playing versus randoms, and have not shown anything out-of-line at this ABC table. Villain is young guy who bought into this unlimited BI game with $100 and was initially wearing sunglasses (lolz) but he has since removed them. He doesn't have a players card, so he's probably just some young kid playing Vegas poker for fun and kicks. We're both sitting at $400.

Multiway limped pot, he bets $7 in EP into $12 on J84cc board, 2 calls, I call Button with T9r. Kr turn, he $10 into $40, a call, I call. Ar river, he $10 into $70, a call, I $45 (looks like these guys have weak scared Jx and hate the run-out, I'm trying to rep big two pair or backdoor straight).

Gyah?nah?G
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Old 11-14-2016, 04:09 PM   #192
Amanaplan
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

H1 - Fold riv, not a spot to bluff, and not at this sizing. You're just praying he doesn't have a queen which you know he has plenty of and plays it this way virtually always. Absolutely bet flop, bet turn for thin value/prot, easy to think of worse hands that call at least one bet/sometimes two.

H2 - I'd just have zero bluffs against this guy, less so when the FD whiffs. You're stationing IP here bc you're counting on having him call a sizable riv bet when you bink, so don't make one when you don't.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:24 PM   #193
bodybuilder32
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

At GG

I like the play on Hand 2 but the sizing is too small. Making it only $35 more to call in a $135 pot is just too good a price and going to get a lot of crying calls.

I would blast it here and make it $100. Should get him to fold all of his one pair hands and possibly a weak two pair.

Agree with AmanaPlan about usually having zero bluffs against this type of player, but his bet sizing is so small that I think it's worth the risk. If he calls, he's bad enough to give the $ back, plus you get some advertising in.
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Old 11-15-2016, 06:46 AM   #194
Alsi
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

live game 5/10

hand 1
hero 1000 eff stack open to 30 EP 78s

MP checks hero s stack and 3bet to 80
fold to hero who calls

flop AT8 rag, pot 160 hero check call 80

turn T , pot 320 hero bets 220

vilain tank calls

river Jr, pot 760, hero bets 410

vilain calls with Q9s (;





hand 2
hero straddle to 20

4 ppls call including BB super LAG omaha player
hero checks Q2o

flop 2x6xJc rag check around
turn Tc , SB and BB checks, hero bets 60
btn calls and bb call

pot 280
river 4x , bb checks
hero bets 180
btn folds
bb tank long time and calls
Hero wins with pair of deuces
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Old 11-15-2016, 01:46 PM   #195
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32 View Post
At GG

I like the play on Hand 2 but the sizing is too small. Making it only $35 more to call in a $135 pot is just too good a price and going to get a lot of crying calls.

I would blast it here and make it $100. Should get him to fold all of his one pair hands and possibly a weak two pair.

Agree with AmanaPlan about usually having zero bluffs against this type of player, but his bet sizing is so small that I think it's worth the risk. If he calls, he's bad enough to give the $ back, plus you get some advertising in.
Ya, I'm always torn about going bigger here because I have to be successful so much more often to be profitable, plus my sizing looks to be begging to be called (so it might not). But a bigger raise certainly is harder to call for one pair hands.

Regarding advertising, and this is one thing I didn't really think about at the time, is that I was only going to be there for another hour and would never play with these guys ever again. So doing anything for advertising purposes is probably pretty meh.

FWIW, I was looked up in H2 by the donk/donk/donker whose nut flush draw backed into TPNK (which was admittedly a concern). H1 the guy struggle sigh folded AK (top two) face up, I guess my accidental hollywood worked, lolz.

GcluelessadvertisingnoobG
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:02 AM   #196
Dream Crusher
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

I made the very rare trip to Choctaw tonight and played some 1/2. My image before this hand was likely pretty tight as I had been quite card dead my first few orbits (raised my first hand showing AJ but folded for the next 2 orbits).

Hand:

UTG limps (new player)
Hero (UTG+1) limps 97
MP Loosest player at the table makes it $8
MP+1 Calls $8.
HJ folds.
CO Calls $8.
Button 3-bets to $25. Older rec player. I feel he is raising for value here.
SB calls $25. Older lady reg, not calling with complete junk here.
BB Folds.
UTG calls $25.
Hero (UTG+1) 4-bets all in for $125.
Everyone folds.
Hero shows.
Hero collects nearly a full double up.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:47 AM   #197
psujohn
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Wow. I suppose I'm glad it worked for you but that's just pure spew there.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:14 PM   #198
gobbledygeek
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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Originally Posted by psujohn View Post
Wow. I suppose I'm glad it worked for you but that's just pure spew there.
+1

GimoG
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:21 PM   #199
Dream Crusher
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

It was a bad limp obv but I think this ship will get folds from most of the button and sb's ranges in this spot.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:27 PM   #200
gobbledygeek
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Dude is raising for value, wants action with this sizing, and has put in 1/5 of effective stack, and there is now huge dead money in the pot relative to stacks thanks to the coldcaller. You just happened to run into the very bottom of his range (KQ? AJ?), congrats, imo.

Having said that, we did limp/shove from EP (repping AA/KK), and plus last week's Vegas trip proved yet again that I have zero clue about how lightly vs how tightly $125 stacks go in in 1/2 NL (which is why I never respond to 1/2 NL threads).

Gstill,verymeh,imoG
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