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Old 06-16-2018, 06:43 PM   #351
Phil Me Up
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

@ DC -- I don't really comprehend your flop overcalls in the 52dd or the 32cc hand (I probably wouldn't even call the 3x PFR w/ it pre -- it's a truly bad hand to have OOP), and think making moves OOP in multiway pots is generally pretty 'meh'. Kudos for threading the needle though.

H#2 I think the float is logical, and I kind of like a xr if we had picked up some equity OTT, but when not I feel it's a bit spewy to do w/ zero chance to win if called. You probably should x/f a Qh. But obviously if villain is competent he should be reading into your "I'm a mindless idiot on a tablet" image as you having basically no bluffs (generally speaking).
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Old 06-16-2018, 06:59 PM   #352
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

The 52 was just a bad call. Was not playing my A game that day.

The 23 hand I figured CO mostly had air there and button mostly had Ax there and never has 4x. I can credibly rep a 4 or a flush (button has played with me a lot). The turn checked around but if it doesn't check around I think I generally win the hand on the turn, whether a flush card comes or not. Maybe not a good call but that was my thinking.
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:19 PM   #353
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

BTW, in live poker if some bad rec player wants to let me in a hand for 2 additional big blinds when I have some crappy suited hand OOP then I will certainly oblige them. These games are so soft my normal raise size is 5x but a lot of players aren't folding to me for 6x, 7x, heck some aren't even folding for 8x+. From my perspective 2 bbs is just 1 straddle, which I do frequently anyways.
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:19 PM   #354
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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BTW, in live poker if some bad rec player wants to let me in a hand for 2 additional big blinds when I have some crappy suited hand OOP then I will certainly oblige them. These games are so soft my normal raise size is 5x but a lot of players aren't folding to me for 6x, 7x, heck some aren't even folding for 8x+. From my perspective 2 bbs is just 1 straddle, which I do frequently anyways.
I'd wager if you kept detailed records of every time you did that, you'd realize you're coming out pretty far behind. I get live games are softer, but online database analysis essentially confirms this as SB/BB reality in a vacuum.

But to each their own Just MO. Certainly not hating.
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Old 06-17-2018, 04:31 AM   #355
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

I'm sure I haven't done it many times because rarely do I ever see a 3x raise in these games. Normal raise sizes in these games are bigger but even if they weren't I normally set the tone in regards to what raise sizes will be and other players tend to follow suit.

That being said you only need 25% equity in direct odds to call the $10 in that spot but I'm mostly calling for implied odds against a really inexperienced raiser.

On a related note, I admittedly play a much much wider range preflop than is optimal (mostly from position though) so don't be surprised if you see me show up with all sorts of hands ITT. Also, when I do get tired and on tilt I tend to open up my game even more. Fortunately, I've been playing pretty well as of late. I've had 2 sessions that I played poorly in the last 15 at my home casino...I ran well in both though and have only booked one loss over my last 15 sessions, a $1300 one at 5/T/20.

Last edited by Dream Crusher; 06-17-2018 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:20 PM   #356
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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Originally Posted by c0rnBr34d View Post
Only ran two bluffs in my last session, 4 hrs 20 min. I'd like to know the bluff frequency of winning players here if anyone wants to share? I was playing TAGish with emphasis on the T and maybe a lowercase "a". I had only showed down top pair or better all night. I don't really count hands, so I cant accurately quote VPIP or PFR stats but it was textbook tight. Anyway, I tend to get people's attention and then not be able to get paid off when I'm this tight so on occasion I'll look to open a pot in position with a marginal hand if I've been card dead for too long. I call it "buying action", so then when I have a hand I still get calls. If I win the hand, great. If I lose the hand it helps my image as long as I don't spew, which I very rarely do (I might GII with a combo draw on the flop). I don't have it in my head how I will proceed ahead of time. I adjust to the board and the Villians. Anyway OTTHs:



First bluff (2/5): Hero (~$800) in CO with 8 6 raise to $30

2 callers, V1 Older WG, tournament player who sees way to many flops, I cover. V2, LP player is all over the place, I also cover.

Flop: (~$95) Q73r

Checks to hero who bets $60. Everyone folds.



Second bluff: Hero (~$1000) in LP (CO or HJ) with AJo raise to $35

Same V1 from above calls, V2 calls, V3 calls. The flop comes 9 high rainbow. Checks around to Hero. Hero bets $70 (1/2 pot was kind of light and a mistake in retrospect if Hero decides to c-bet here, checking is probably best but this thread is not for checking in position). Only V1 calls.

Turn is a Q. V1 checks. Hero decided V1s range was 1 pair or straight draw and bets $200. V1 tank folds. After the tank fold I'm sure it was more than a single draw, either combo draw or pair plus draw.



I realize these aren't "optimal" bluff situations and how badly things could have gone, but I've found if I play super tight and mix in a bluff every 2 hours or so, in position I've been successful. Again, I try to make a read on V and consider board and V strength before double barreling, and I don't really have a triple barrel bluff. I literally cant remember doing this in years. With my nit-ish play style I rarely find myself in spots where I think it would be needed. Is that a problem?


If these are your only "bluffs" in 4 hours, you are playing entirely too tight.

Hand 1 is a cbet on a dry board. You should be cbetting this board a lot because it's hard to hit.

Hand 2 you double barreled an overcard. Again, this is something you should be doing often against certain opponents.
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Old 06-18-2018, 08:42 PM   #357
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Early in what turned out to be a pretty crazy game, I picked up 99 and called a 7.5x open. Flop came ten high with two clubs and the PFR checked to me. I bet 2/3 pot and got called. Turn was an offsuit Ace and villain bet about pot. Villain was pretty LAG so I called intending to blast off if checked to. River was a beautiful 4c. Villain checked to me, I bet 1.5x the pot, villain tanks and folds AK.

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Old 07-06-2018, 06:14 PM   #358
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Played a 5 hour 1/3 session. I haven’t been playing often and come in and just butcher a coupe hands.

1) I turn jacks into a bluff and get revluffed by a mid 50s grinder who says he had a tell on me....

2) I flop top pair and OESD in a 3 bet pot and c/c, c/c, c/f vs a bad reg old man. He of course was also bluffing Bc I must be the easiest mark to bluff, ever.

So now that my image is shot and I’m in my “everybody is out to get me” zone, I take a break and then change tables.

My new game has a ton of action. But not completely reckless. The biggest mark just can’t fold his top pair for 150+ blinds. Other than that, it’s competent aggression/floats/ranging stuff, but everybody is trying to win every pot.

Already stuck 400’ish, I decide given the action that I should at least initially be pretty tight and find good spots rather than marginal ones.

So naturally I get maybe two playable hands the next hour or so.

Not wanting to get too tight of an image I decide to open to 20 from the cutoff into two limpers with the old A7o.

All folds except both limpers call.

Flop Q J 10 rainbow

Check to me, I bet 25 as I would with my sets, AK, AQs, AA, and KK. Both guys call.

Turn 6h, bringing back door hearts.

Check to me again, and I decide to stick with the story Bc this is where we see if the have 2pair or 89.

With hearts and resistance, I decide to size up. Keeps my range strong and makes it harder for them to raise with their pair+draw type hands.

I bet 65. First guy calls, 2nd folds.

River is a 4s.

Check to me and I short-tank ship, and get a groaning pretty quick fold.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:55 PM   #359
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

QJT kinda smashes a limp call range, there aren’t really any great cards to barrel turn, and it’s not clear if any card improves your hand except for a K. I would pick another spot to barrel off. That being said, you do have a lot of nutted hands on this board, including the nuts, so could be worse and congrats on getting it through. The other good thing you have going for you is that they will also have flopped a lot of pair+draw and none of that improved on this runout. Q9 J9 T8 all those types of hands have a really tough river decision.

Last edited by Badreg2017; 07-06-2018 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:15 PM   #360
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Once the turn bet is called though, I don’t think there are many hands that can call unimproved rivers.

Like I have the bigger hands, they have more two pairs, pairs plus straight draws. But when the turn is just called, I think it’s highly unlikely there are many two pairs there.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:29 PM   #361
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

I agree, I think the bluff gets progressively better with each street. I wouldn’t say they are capped because it’s a rainbow flop which will lead to some slowplaying, and some people are too scared to raise two pair on that board, but their ranges in general aren’t super strong on that run out by the river.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:15 PM   #362
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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Originally Posted by Me2theEV View Post
Played a 5 hour 1/3 session. I haven’t been playing often and come in and just butcher a coupe hands.

1) I turn jacks into a bluff and get revluffed by a mid 50s grinder who says he had a tell on me....

2) I flop top pair and OESD in a 3 bet pot and c/c, c/c, c/f vs a bad reg old man. He of course was also bluffing Bc I must be the easiest mark to bluff, ever.

So now that my image is shot and I’m in my “everybody is out to get me” zone, I take a break and then change tables.

My new game has a ton of action. But not completely reckless. The biggest mark just can’t fold his top pair for 150+ blinds. Other than that, it’s competent aggression/floats/ranging stuff, but everybody is trying to win every pot.

Already stuck 400’ish, I decide given the action that I should at least initially be pretty tight and find good spots rather than marginal ones.

So naturally I get maybe two playable hands the next hour or so.

Not wanting to get too tight of an image I decide to open to 20 from the cutoff into two limpers with the old A7o.

All folds except both limpers call.

Flop Q J 10 rainbow

Check to me, I bet 25 as I would with my sets, AK, AQs, AA, and KK. Both guys call.

Turn 6h, bringing back door hearts.

Check to me again, and I decide to stick with the story Bc this is where we see if the have 2pair or 89.

With hearts and resistance, I decide to size up. Keeps my range strong and makes it harder for them to raise with their pair+draw type hands.

I bet 65. First guy calls, 2nd folds.

River is a 4s.

Check to me and I short-tank ship, and get a groaning pretty quick fold.
I think Hero got lucky because QJTr hits a lot of hands. I would guess V2 had middle pair & V1 who folded on river picked up a flush draw to go with whatever he had otf.

I don't think doing this is advisable.
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:36 PM   #363
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

5/10 villain has about 2k hero covers.

PF: 1 limp, villain makes it 40 from MP, CO calls, Hero calls button with Td7d, bb and limper call.

Flop(205): 8 7 4r
checks to villain who bets 80, fold, hero calls, limper calls.

Turn(445): 8
Villain bets 160, hero calls, fold.

River(765): J
Villain bets 500, hero makes it 1500

Villain tanks for about 3 min and calls.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:18 PM   #364
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

I dont hate it against the right villain but I think I like a turn raise to rep a wider 8x range.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:38 PM   #365
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

Hero has probably played in two raised pots in the last 4 hours. Let’s go for it with that rock image:

1/3 live

Hero is the effective stack with $500

Two limps by people who limp call stupidly wide. Like 2-4o wide. They are both weak tight post flop though and only raise the nuts.

Hero looks down at 87hh otb and makes it $25, both call. Definitely too big pre, 18-21 accomplishes the same thing since I’m never getting folds pre.

Pot:$70

Flop:JT6r one heart.

Checks to hero who bets $35 one call.

I didn’t want to bomb it on flop since I wanted to keep their ranges wide enough and then barrel a lot of turns.

Pot:$140

Turn is the 3h.

Check, hero goes $110, villain folds.

Kind of titled right now. Have been in a game where people are punting stacks all day and can’t catch a hand. At least I got my one sizeable bluff through.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:28 AM   #366
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

This from 1-2NL at Caesar’s in Vegas. Effective Stacks = $195

Villains
1. Standard limpy fish
2. Good player but very Ego driven to dominate

Preflop
V1 limps, I raise to $12 from MP with KQs, V2 calls from BT, V1 calls

Flop (Pot = $35)
Board = A 7 3 with one of my suit
V1 looks like he wants to bet, but ends up checking
I bet $20. V2 calls and V1 folds.

Turn (Pot = $75)
4th street brings another A making the board A 7 3 A
I check, V2 bets $50, I go allin for $163


Brilliant or Kamikaze? Let’s discuss!
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:47 PM   #367
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Re: Tell me about your bluff today

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
If these are your only "bluffs" in 4 hours, you are playing entirely too tight.

Hand 1 is a cbet on a dry board. You should be cbetting this board a lot because it's hard to hit.

Hand 2 you double barreled an overcard. Again, this is something you should be doing often against certain opponents.
They were, and I am uber tight relative to most of my table peers. It's been working though. I'm continuing to look for spots to open my game but I'm not forcing things as long as they are working.

Last session it was this hand, lol in advance. HJ opens for $20 pre-flop and gets called by CO. I flat OTB with 65, 3 way flop. Flop comes A97r, checks around to me. I decide to use my tight image to rep the A and bet $55 into about $70 with limped dead money. Only PFR calls. I lol spike the 8s on the turn, V checks, I bet $110, V raises to $325 with his presumed set or top two, Hero jams about $970 total, V covers and calls pretty quickly and mucks showdown. Tripled up in 2.25 hrs, making hands and getting action, didn't feel the need to add any bluffs.

Last edited by c0rnBr34d; 07-12-2018 at 03:54 PM.
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