Tried to bluff with air vs. an unknown at 1-2 on a 4-straight, 4-flush board. Got hero-called by bottom 2 pair. :/

Results were I got snap called by K4

This type of stuff makes me realize how thin we can vbet in poker.

I think my range consists of oddly played sets, 56, A5s with bdfd, and spazz. I honestly would play sets this way some of the time and A5/56 all of the time (though 56 isn't in my UTG range)

From villains perspective here though even if the line was confusing I'd think there was no way for me to have a non value hand.

I had 89 and was going for a x/r on all spade/T/some 6 turns and x/c on 8/9 turns.

So yea basically I was drawing to a draw haha (plo makes you think this way)

Lessons:

1) Don't float oop 5 ways with 9 high... little boredom mistakes like this really cost a ton of money overtime

2) look for more spots to vbet large sizing with a merged range (like A7s here for example)

posted this somewhere else, but HH like this certainly make the case for betting thin in teh right spots.

Table last night was all sorts of fun.

Best hand of the night:

laggy terrible V opens from EP for $7
a couple of flats
terribad semi-station semi-maniac calls from the button (he will station most pairs, except when he raises those pair or complete airballs, but then calls off with the airballs just for fun)

Flop T75sss ($35)
laggy bet $20
all fold cepts for sssm

turn 4s ($75)
laggy checks
sssm bets $40
laggy calls reasonably quick

river 2x ($155)
laggy checks
sssm rips it in for $100 or so
laggy tanks for a good minute or two and finally calls of with 65o (no spade)

Mind blown


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V is ~30ish Asian guy. I've played him before, but hasn't stood out. That means he's generally loose and passive, but probably not truly horrible. No specific tendencies noted.

V (BB): 600ish
V1 (HJ): 500 MAWG. Will raise with the very best 75% of his hands pre.
H (BTN): covers

H has 53o.

Limps to H (obviously a rarity). H decides to buy a lottery ticket and throws in $4.

Only six of us to the flop.

Flop ($24) T42r

checks to H who bets $25. No one seems to love their hand. I should at very least get a free card and I'll likely barrel a turn overcard if I get a caller.

V/BB raises to 75.

V1/HJ calls.

H calls. V pretty much has 2P+. My draw is to the nuts and I have an excellent chance to get more out of one V or the other.

Turn ($245) T42r J puts BDFD on board
BB leads for 90
HJ folds.
H calls. Basic make-a-hand/get paid. Raising unlikely to get a fold.

River T42r J 2 no flushes possible
BB checks
H bets 300. (The gallery mutters their disapproval.)

V obviously calls without much thought. I announce "five high" and V rolls over T4.

As the guy said after he took off all his clothes and ran into the cactus patch, "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

Lessons learned:

Srsly? Trying to bluff V off 2P? Really?

I should learn to get good enough to value bet a jack here. Actually serious about this. If I'm comfortable that V isn't checking river with a boat, J is pretty much the nuts.

Obviously need more practice at home making my draws. I've been working on it, but can't seem to get much higher than about 20% on each street.

Hand reading is a good idea. It's somewhat less useful if you decide to ignore the reads on the river.

Found a good spot for a 5-bet bluff today and wanted to post the hand. I'm curious if anyone else considers using the 5-bet bluff at low level games or if I'm crazy and just lucky it got through.

Villian had sat down at table maybe 45 minutes prior and had been very active from the get go. Opened wide, had 3-bet a few times and had 4 bet a pot and then took it down on the flop. The kind of player who analyzed hands out loud after the fact. At least a thinking player, no way to know how good or bad. Villian has about $1000 in front.

Utg limps $5, Villian in MP raises to $20, folds to me in CO with Ts9s & I decide to three bet small to $55 ($525 stack). His opens had been $25-$30 typically, so this seemed like a good spot to make a small raise and take it down or play a pot in position with a strong range. Folds to villain who makes it $210. I pause for a bit and then raise all in for $525. He tanks folds and shows QQ.

I can remember the last time I thought I had a good spot to 5-bet bluff. It was well over a year ago, perhaps closer to 2 years (and I didn't pull the trigger although I found out after the hand that it would have worked).

The last time someone 5-bet bluffed me, they got shoved on and turbo-mucked.

Light 4-betting can be a thing against the right opponents even at LLSNL, but there is basically no way you need 5-bet bluffs, ever, at any stakes I've played, to be a winner. The biggest game I've ever played is 5/10.

my favorite bluff that worked during my last session

tilty guy who everone knows is raising every hand raises to 20, one call, wanna be pro villain raises to 120, i make it 275 next to act with 93o, everyone folds

I tend to agree with you. You will always be pretty much taking a stab in the dark. I think the key is to make sure you pick a hand that retains the most equity and then obviously pick a player who could be capable of a big fold (even though you likely haven't seen them 4-bet/fold in the past.

I think you've got it backwards. You do not want to pick a player who you suspect has a wider-than-normal value 4bet range and hope they can lay down a big hand. What you want to pick is a player who has a 4bet bluffing range that they will auto-fold to a 5bet.

This is why 5bet bluffing is so extremely rare at LLSNL--it's because light 4betting is already rare, and the frequency of 5bet bluffs should be a fraction of what light 4bet frequencies are.

Ah this makes sense as the main goal. But if that were the only consideration, then our hand would not matter. I guess we look for a hand that retains equity when we are wrong!

Thing is that you generally need both. If someone is 4betting light and autofolding to a 5bet, they've probably thought about the dynamics and are targeting a light 3bet. This means that:
1) they are a thinking player.
2) they know the 3bettor's range is weak, so they can 4bet wider for value as well as get bluffs through.

If they are a wannabe pro, they might be really imbalanced with too many bluffs and that's a great spot. But if they're any good, then you will need them to fold some of their value too.

Bumping this golden thread...

1/2

Hero $475
Villain MAWG tightish player, fold capable ~ covers

Villain opens to $13 in CO. BTN calls, SB calls, Hero calls with KsTs in BB.

Pot $52
Flop As9d6s

Check to Villain who bets $17. Fold fold Hero raises to $50. Villain calls.

Pot $152
Turn 8h
Hero bets $100, Villain calls.

Pot $352
River Qc
Hero jams $325, Villain calls w/ A8os.

Hero posts to 2+2...


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So if you're going to bump this thread, please include your assessment of why this bluff was good and why it was bad. That's the best part of this thread, I'm. It makes it strat, not just stories.

3bet pre, lead flop, as played raise larger, check turn, check river.

Garrick, so re: my last post, villain had been opening $7 of $8 most of the time, him going higher indicates to me a better ace. OTF I thought a check raise could take down the pot, and since it didn’t I continued to tell my story by repping a set. On the turn I picked up additional outs with a gutter straight... so I went what looked like a value bet of 2/3rds pot setting up sizes for a river shove as a bluff or value if I hit. I honestly didn’t think villain could call my river bet with two pair, but I only put him on a single ace, like AT-AK (river queen was a little worrisome, but not enough for me to reconsider shoving).

I got some advertisement from this play that could help me in later sessions as there were regs at the table that got to see me go super aggro and run a big bluff.

Obv bad that it didn’t work, and didn’t range villain wide enough, but was a learning exp because I don’t go off like this often


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I bluff a ton, and could probably create my own thread with as often as I bluff. Just yesterday I bluffed a player off the 2nd nuts, Ks on an 4 spade board with a single river bet. Minutes later I bluff shoved my stack to him when he had a flush. Anyways, here are a few memorable recent bluffs:

Hand #1
2/5
Hero (SB) $365, tight image. Hasn't played many hands at all.

UTG+1 young tightish Asian player raises to $20, 4 players call.
Hero raises to $115 from the SB with 92o.
Folds to button, loose MAWG rec player who tank calls. The general feeling I got from him tanking a long time is that he had an actual decision and isn't just calling me with any random hand like T6. Thinking his range is mostly pocket pairs as well as strong blackjack hands (KJ+, AT+).

Flop ($310) 982r

I check, he checks.

Turn Qr.

I bet $100. He ships for $150 more. I call.


Analysis

Preflop: The table had been playing tightish (especially for a weekend 2/5 game) with the only loose player being the button. Given that, I think this raise gets through well over 50% of the time making this the only +EV way to play 92o in this spot, much to the chagrin of GTO disciples. If we do get called we can still bluff a lot of flops/turns vs players that mostly play their hands face up. In looser 2/5 games raising pre is burning money though.

Flop: Pretty standard check, IMO. No reason to deny equity to broadway hands or small pocket pairs at this point. I'd rather induce a bet/shove by repping AK. If villain bets then I will shove for value and potential equity denial.

Turn: This sizing is really bad. We're actually giving hands like JJ and TT the correct direct odds to call and we're giving Qx type hands the correct indirect odds to call. In this instance it worked out in our favor but that doesn't make it any better. This hand was slowplayed 2 death.

Hand #2
Same session.

2/5

Hero (MP) $900, loose image. Showed 92off twice in pots where I was all in (villain may not have been at the table the first time). Just won a big pot vs villain where I raised big with 88 on a T82ss board and shoved blank turn. Blank river and villain didn't show.
Villain (LP): $725, 30-something weekend rec player. Pretty new to the table but seems to mix it up and is up from his initial buyin.

I raise to $25 with QJ, 4 callers.

Flop ($125): AK2

I bet $75. Villain calls.

Turn ($275): 4

I check. Villain bets $175. I ship.

Analysis

I mostly think this is spew. On the turn low stakes players are going to bet this way way too wide making them easy to exploit. Will they fold though? I just showed this guy a set the last time I raised and have shown 2 pair+ every other time I shipped it but he's never folding a flush draw here (ie Khxh) and is he folding a pair and a gutshot?

Hand#3
5/T/20 (initially a 5/T game but now $20 is a mandatory straddle)

Hero ($2350): Tight image. Is known to make moves in general but has been playing very tight this session.

4 players limp, Villain#1 makes it $330 from the SB. Villain #1 is a strong pro who likes to gamble and whose general image is maniac but can change gears from TAG to LAG to maniac.

I call in the big blind with 75.

4 others call.

Flop JT3

Villain 1 checks. I bet $875.


Analysis

Preflop is just bad. In my mind I'm thinking V1 can do this with any 2 cards, and my cold call reps super strong, ie TT+ and AK. I still have multiple players to act behind me including a short stack with under $800. I'm also setting up a potential post flop steal vs a player that is more than capable of calling me with bottom pair type hands. The one scenario I really didn't count on was that the other players would all call behind me.

The flop is super spew, I'd say. Just compounding one problem with another. I had a plan and even though things changed I stuck with it which is really bad. One thing I do like about it is that I am repping super strong. Also, given most of these are 5/T players playing 5/T/20 I expect a lot of them to be playing pretty fit or fold..ie trying to get lucky on the flop and not looking to play a monster pot without a very strong hand or draw. However, this this board is way way too wet. One player had $450 left at the flop making this bluff all the more insane.

Some solid spew there, DC.

Hand #1 1/2
Hero ($200) SB Card dead for a while and so folding almost every hand this session but is generally not super tight.
V1 ($100) BB Super tight, possibly a little scared.
V2 ($300) BTN (Straddles every possible opportunity, goes on and on about how he wants to play PLO but nobody else wants to play it, how he just got up off of the 2/5 table with $1300 in profit, and how 1/2 is a crappy game (he's mostly right about that, but I can only afford to play this) and he's the best player at the table, yada yada yada).

OTTH: Hero is dealt KT
Hero calls 4 from SB. BB makes it $16, fold, fold, fold, MP calls, fold, fold, V2 calls, I call. Pot: $64.

Flop: JT2
Check, check, check to BTN who bets $50. Hero tanks for a minute, makes it $150 to go, thinking I outrange the straddle on the button, fold, fold, BTN shows AJ, says "you're so tight" and folds.

I table my hand and scoop the pot. He then smiles and says "This is what you get for folding every hand. I didn't think you had it in you. If we were deeper, I would have called." To which I smile and reply "Yes, I was using my tight image, and if we were deeper I wouldn't make it just $150 to go."

Hand #2 1/3 4-handed
V1 (BB) (~150) calling station who has no real hand reading skills. Mostly have played limit omaha with her, so I know she always thinks the other player has the nuts if they bet on top of her.
Hero (BTN) (~350).

OTTH: Hero is dealt 67
UTG folds, Hero on the button makes it $12 to go, SB folds, V1 calls. Pot: $24.

Flop: 289

V1 leads for $12, I float in position hoping to hit my straight and stack her, or take it away from her at a later street. Pot $48.

Turn: 4
V1 leads for $20 (poor sizing), I call. Pot $88.

River: 8
V1 checks. I bet $85. V1 folds.

Hand #3 1/2
Hero (~350) BTN playing solid.
V1 (~550) HJ. Newbie who called three streets with T3 on a T922A board and mucked when I tabled QT (I know!). And also called three streets with QJ on a J494Q board when hero had KJ (didn't raise the river). I'm a little frustrated with him, but also decide that he is ripe for putting a hit out on.

OTTH: Hero is dealt KQ
Fold, fold, fold, V1 makes it $10 to go, I call, SB folds, BB folds. Pot $23.

Flop: 952
V1 bets $20, I float in position. Pot $63.

Turn: 5
V1 bets $35, I make it $85, he calls. (bad play since I forgot that he's been calling to the river) Pot $223.

River: K (I got super lucky).
V1 checks, I bet $140. He calls and mucks. This play set me up to get paid on a later hand when I rivered a flush when I had top pair (Q) on the flop to go with it (he had an overpair (again?!)) which obviously tilted him.

Very, very, bad idea. Stop showing off, and keep your clean image so you can do it again. And while we're at it, calling the tight BB's raise with the worst position at the table was also bad. It really sounds from the HH like you're trying too hard.

Where's the bluff here?