1/3 $800 eff, V has me covered.

Drunk guy to my right who would normally be UTG straddles to $6 making him the third blind. Hero UTG. This guy is like, belligerent drunk. Probably going to get kicked out soon. He has about $300. Main V is BTN who has me covered. I have $800.

BTN is main V in hand. He’s been raising/3b very frequently. He’s 3b twice within the last 2 hours and has 3b others somewhat frequently. Seen him flip over J9o in either LJ or HJ previously that he raised to $18 pre and cbet flop, got a fold, and showed his hand. Raises very often. Probably has a vpip/pfr around 45/34 if I had to guess.

Straddle $6. H UTG 8h7h. Raise 20 trying to iso straddler. BTN 3b 85. H 4b to $200. V calls.

Pot: $410

Flop KhTd7d

H bets $100. V shoves all in.

I know. SNAP FOLD!! FOLD PRE!! DONT 4b bluff in 1/3! I know. But WHAT DOES HE HAVE HERE?

V has signs of being a thinking player btw but still seems like not that great. Always griping and berating fish when he raises to $20 and a short stack shoves over for his remaining $120, "That doesn't make any sense, why would you bet that much. Even if you want me to fold or call your bets just make noo sense. Even if I have aces I'm not getting odds to call." He thinks he's some type of savant so I've been watching him play a lot and came to the conclusion he's pretty bad but very aggressive.

Not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. That's a fold pre from me most of the time. It's not a hand that plays well OOP, and you certainly won't iso the straddler with a $20, I'd go at least $25-27 here if you're trying to do that. If you were, say, HJ/CO and it folded to you, I could see trying to ISO the straddler, but from UTG it's dubious at best.

If you knew you were going to bluff, I'd try to rep AA/KK and limp/RR from UTG.

That's an irrelevant question. Even if he's a bad reg, you're dominated here just based off of the action. You have bottom pair bad kicker so you can't call his shove regardless. That's not how you stack opponents in a deep 1/3 game.

His range is all middle pairs (TT-KK), some combo draws (QdJd and others), tons of KdX combos.

Flop bet is spew also. 1/4 PSB never accomplishes anything in a low stakes game besides bloating the pot. 95% of players at those stakes interpret it as weakness.

Your only play on the flop was shoving yourself, I don't think anything else has enough fold equity to make your bluff worth it. Did you have a tight image before you did this bluff? If yes, then it's a turbo fold because he's shoving over you.

Yup.

Yup. Also, don't try to iso with meh hands UTG.

It's not that you shouldn't 4-bet bluff in 1/3, it's that you picked the wrong hand to do it with. You want to 4-bet bluff with mainly hands like AJ or A5 which block AA and AK and have equity when called.

AP, V has a pot sized bet left, so you can't really put him on a specific hand. 1/4 pot looks super weak since you both have a pot sized bet left and this board is pretty good for both of your ranges. If you really had AA or AK you would jam this flop, and if you check, he's going to jam. Imo AP, you have to either jam or c/f. If villain connected with this board at all, he's calling or jamming over you.

And finally, AP fold. You can't put him on a specific hand here because he's basically jamming his entire range facing this tiny bet unless he completely whiffed.

I can't even...

Nothing in villains range is behind your hand. And the parts that are have a lot of equity.

Just fold.

Come play at Golden Nugget Las Vegas this week, starting Sunday.

PLEASE!

I'm guessing the fact that this thread ended up here V showed down some weird semi-bluff like J9 again, but it really doesn't matter. You can't put someone on a specific hand here. Here's the thing with maniacs though, they get monsters at the same rate everyone else does. So while he could have some garbage here, he could also have KK. Ranging him is going to be very tough here. Does he 3-bet ultra light all the time, and call 4-bets with his whole 3-betting range? No idea. Were his previous light 3-bets in spots where it may have made sense based on his opponents? Again, no idea.

If trying to out level maniacs and then soul read them when they shove over your weak flop bet and you've got bottom pair is your idea of poker, then fine, but it's not what I know winning poker to look like.

KQo. But yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Since I'm correct V is 3b light here is my 4b bluff still bad? I mean who in their right mind calls with KQo here?

When V shoves over the top the only hand I could imagine him shoving with at the time was AK AA or KK which a large chunk of the time is shoving pre. Only value hand that makes sense is TT.

Maybe I should just move up in stakes where they respect my raises? /s

Fold pre, but if you were open ended it would make more sense. I put him on K2 to K9 here. fold

Obviously categorized you as a LAG with a very wide range and decided to gambool. Please don't take this the wrong way because I am not slamming you. Seems like he had you pegged so you might want to think about mixing up your play a lot better.

“I know. Snap fold. Fold pre”

If u know u should fold, why don’t u fold? That’s the real question.
Imo the downfall of many poker players is that they don’t make the play they know they should make. If anything I would recommend practicing more discipline. Forget this hand. Work on your mental game.

Also, Opening 87 UTG vs a player u expect to defend with a wide range is very foolish. He will likely defend with many hands that crush or dominate u (97, T7, 98, T8, etc) the better play imo is to nit it up. If he’s going to defend wide, then we should just play premium hands to ensure we’re a favorite post flop. But then, it requires discipline to nit it up.
Good luck.


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Everything is horrible here. Fold pre, then fold pre to the 3!, don't 4!. Flop bet is horrible. Take the hint and fold now, save some money.

It's great how you are like 'pretend I didn't play terribly and give me advice', guess what your awful foundations matter when we critique the building. This is bad and you should feel bad, no you can't escape clause your way out of that.

I actually play very TAGish in 1/3. Very value heavy because I know that's where the money comes from at these stakes. But when I see an opportunity I don't hesitate to pull the trigger. I really feel like my 4b bluff and cbet was good. Raising pre and calling jam was terrible. Is this reasonable?

I mean the guy had KQo, how many people are calling a 4b with KQo against an UTG 4b? I know, result oriented, but still. I feel I put him on a correct range and thought he would be able to fold most of it. Guess he was just a maniac. Tilted me even more because the guy looked and sounded like a Mexican Daniel Negraunu.

Pre is bad, but other posters are wrong about postflop. You should certainly never be folding once you see this flop, especially not once you bet $100. I would in fact recommend open jamming this flop to fold him off his equity with AQ, AJ type of hands. If he folds 88, 99, JJ, QQ, all the better.

Ok the rare time you got out of line in your TAGish play you got caught. Bad beat I guess in that he had you beat pre and decided not fold to the pressure.

This is why 1/3 is so profitable. Imagine having AA/KK/AK here and getting almost 300bb stacks in with him crushed. Punting huge stacks like that in bigger games is so rare, but at LLSNL it happens often enough. You just need to be disciplined and not get out of line trying to win pots you have no business being in, and be patient. The punt will come your way eventually. He tried here but you decided to play a weak hand instead and couldn't capitalize, instead you handed him $300, that I'm sure he handed to one of the nits at the table soon enough.

I don't think raising pre (the first time) with suited connectors from UTG+1 was the worst thing in the world, unless you've seen a very high 3bet rate at this table. (Seeing BTN 3bet "twice within the last two hours" doesn't mean he's going to consistently come after an EP raise.) Continuing to put more money in after you faced heat was bad and it got you where it got you. You're deep and you need to protect your stack in a straddled pot better than this. You want to be 4betting a maniac deep with a monster, not a speculative hand, unless you plan on giving up if called.

Sidebar: If you must play here, I'm perfectly fine with calling the 3b against this particular V, this deep, with the SCs. (I'd do the same with low-medium pocket pairs.) I know you're OOP, but you can probably count on him to bet most of the time, so he's easy to play against.

What are you doing betting 25% of the pot on a wet flop? Suppose V puts you on AA or AK, in the unlikely event that he's really thinking about it. You think he's going to fold? I don't.

You know you're going to get torn apart when you post the hand, but you're still defending your play. The 4bet seems unequivocally bad to me, classic FPS. You're trying to punish a bad player by playing badly yourself, and that's not how you do it. You punish him by being patient and taking him down with one glorious monster.

This. Either realize he's not folding and c/f the flop after your bad 4b, or commit $600 in an attempt to win the $400 pot.

Also this. I'm not bothering to put V on a range here because he can have literally anything and can shove with any piece of the board (including a monster) or none at all. You don't have sufficient equity to call his shove of another $500, which is why you were better off shoving yourself (but check/folding is still probably better).

This is totally wrong, especially since in the previous sentence you entertain the possibility of him shoving after missing the flop.

Do you assume that his shoving range and calling our shove range are the same, because I don't. Overcard hands like AQ/AJ/QJ have substantial equity against us but would probably fold to a shove, but if they are part of a villains shoving range that also includes value hands we don't have the equity to call.

FWIW I don't think shoving this flop is a great idea. It smacks his fairly wide range and this guy doesn't seem like the type of player I want to bluff.

Shoving the flop is not really a bluff. Even if he calls his entire preflop range otf, i.e. never folds, the shove is still +EV. It is just MORE +EV if he happens to fold hands like 99 and AJ with a diamond.

Gap concept IMO. It's possible he shoves with air, but that's less likely than us getting a fold from his air or slightly stronger hand when we shove.

I recommended shoving as you can see above. What I object to is people saying as played this is a fold. It is not. Call as played.

Oh, didn't mean that you were advocating for a c/c on this flop.

I still think it's a fold AP, but it might be close. If we're thinking about calling here, we are going to need to put opponent on a range after all. What have you got and what's our equity? (I was probably exaggerating to say he can have anything at all.)

What if I'm betting 25% pot with my whole range here whether I have a monster or not? I've been trying to work on my bet sizing and have been messing around with betting 1/4 or 1/3 pot in 3b pots. Does this not apply to 4b pots? I figured it's a pretty balanced sizing with the SPR so low for my bluffs/value bets. But I feel like bet sizing is a leak in my game and I'm just now really starting to think about it so I'm all ears. Also what does FPS stand for?

So I 4b light because I was confident V was 3b light and wanted to punish him with a bluff. But you're right, he's a bad player and that''s not how you beat bad players. I think I may have been a little tilted by V and leveled myself into trying to punish him with a more advanced strategy than he was thinking on. Or maybe I'm just justifying my **** play.

Just curious for anyone who plays higher stakes, do you guys ever attempt 4b light vs a wide 3b range vs a thinking LAG?

Goddammit I should have just folded pre UTG live can make you do such dumb **** with the amount of hands per hour.

@Warteen: It's really hard to put him on a range, but we need 31% equity. Considering we have 25% against AA, he doesn't really need to be bluffing super often to call. Like if he has a reasonable preflop range, he might jam flop with KK+, TT, AK, KQs, AdJd, AhJh, AhQh, and AQ with a diamond. Then we have 32% equity. Fiddling around with the ranges doesn't change too much, but you can come up with ranges where calling is a slight mistake (e.g. add JJ-QQ to the range I just described) or where it is more favorable. But since you are guaranteed decent equity against any range, and there is a potential of true spaz play since all we know about this guy is that he is hyper loose aggro, I would definitely say caution demands you call.