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Old 08-27-2019, 03:23 PM   #1
jmarsh88
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Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Really LAG 2/2 live game. Everyone is at least $300 deep. Been at least 3 500bb pots in the last hour or so. Blind $20 raises UTG, 3b jams with draws, crazy table. The 2 most aggressive players are directly on my right, but havenít played a real pot with either yet. Need some insight on a tough post flop situation I put myself in. This hand is exhibit A as to why you fold pre. OTTH

5 limps to Hero ($740) on the BU with 62c. Hero limps. Yea, I know, fold pre. I regretted it before my $2 hit the felt. I have plenty of leaks, but making undisciplined plays like this hasnít been one of them till now. I guess I just thought at the time any suited, remotely connected cards were worth $2 on the BU in the rare limped pot with everyone so deep. Blinds check. (Pot: $16)

Flop: 7s6d2s.

Checks to HJ($500, MAWG)who bets $10, V($350, younger black guy) in CO raises to $40. Hero?

If I needed another refresher on why hand selection is so important, I got it. I wanted out of this hand before the flop came out, and now I hate the spot Iíve put myself in. Folding would normally be easier but considering the table dynamics, and who is pushing the action, I think that could be leaving $ on the table. This really smells like some kind of combo draw since Iím blocking 22/66, and 77 is raising pre. A7 (maybe considering Vís image), and lone flush/straight draws, are in Vís range too, so I canít find too many value hands that have me crushed besides the unlikely set or 76/72.

With only $2 committed, I really donít want to flip for $700 against any kind of combo draw, but part of me is thinking I just have to go with it. Is it ok to just go with the lower variance option and fold, or is that worse than the decision to limp 62c in the first place?
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:30 PM   #2
Jake Stanton
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

as you already stated fold pre, now that we are here and facing heavy action i really don't mind a fold. infact it's probably the best decision in a multiway pot on a draw heavy board with bottom 2. bottom 2 is so vulnerable and even more so in this situation imo.
fold and sleep well regardless of outcome. if you aren't folding winners once inawhile then you are playing too loose.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:36 PM   #3
Javanewt
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Just fold. For all you know, you are against two players, and you could easily be behind already. I am not gii more than 100bb vs. two players with bottom two in a limped pot.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:38 PM   #4
wj94
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Fold pre obv but call and see what happens on the turn.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:49 PM   #5
Spanishmoon
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

You have, so far, only $2 USD invested. Consider this a "community chest" donation to the "Pre-flop Anonymous" trust fund for punters.

You're not closing the action here. The HJ could come over the top and squeeze. Then what? Even closing the action this is a punt.

Doyle Brunson had a nice passage in the Supersystem on the stupidity of getting it in with bottom two. It's a pitfall as old as Hold'em. And in a limped pot no less! Atonement is necessary......
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:12 PM   #6
WehrmatsWormhat
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Just fold. It sucks, and it's gross, but flatting means you're about to need to flat for 2 more streets if you even get to see them (HJ could come back over the top), and I don't think you want to raise with bottom 2 here.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:47 PM   #7
Perrone66
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Yeah I agree with many of the posters who are suggesting to fold on the flop.

You only invested $2...honestly not a big deal.

Think of it as this way, what cards besides a 6, or a 2 are you comfortable seeing on the turn. Any A, Spade, 10, 9, 5, or 4 on the turn is brutal.


Let it go, and move on to the next hand.
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:44 AM   #8
jdr0317
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Fold. In a near best case scenario youíd have like 45% equity 3 ways and youíre basically dead if youíre behind now.


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Old 08-29-2019, 07:27 PM   #9
aaaces
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Folding here is way too nitty IMO.

Over calling the raise will change the dynamic of the rest of the hand too - it looks strong because it is strong.

I would take one off and evaluate the Turn, folding to a strong bet and bet-folding safe Rivers.

I fold pre here but in a loose passive game, sometimes I will call with any 2 on the button with the intention of stealing the pot on a checked through pot.

With your exact hand, a Flop like K62 is a monster whereas this is a much more complex board (obviously) but you have a lot of equity here and folding it out in what is now a bloated pot is way too tight with all of the draws that could be raising.

Have a game plan BEFORE you put any money in the pot pre - this IMO is your biggest mistake in this hand.

With all of the above said, folding Flop wouldn't be the worst thing in the world (although I wouldn't do it) whereas raising in this spot would.
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Old 08-30-2019, 10:32 AM   #10
7weeks2days
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Is the mawg guy or the black guy one of the aggro punters? Don't just think about your hand, that its a limped pot and that noone wants to go broke in a limped pot w/ a hand they shouldve folded. What do you expect their ranges to look like? Will they call raises otf with worse? Whats our image like, does our image even matter?

My first instinct reading the HH ap would be to raise.
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Old 08-30-2019, 11:32 AM   #11
jtm1208
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

lol at everyone saying fold once the flop comes out. Yea obviously fold pre, but lol I'm not just folding this hand here once we have crushed the flop pretty hard. Especially when factoring in the conditions you have mentioned.

I don't really want to flat this spot as my hand is very good currently but there are a lot of dicey turns and rivers multiway. I'm raising this spot to $140 and I would expect the original better to fold pretty often.
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Old 08-30-2019, 12:36 PM   #12
suave-wizard
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

We're at least calling flop. Btw, 62s PF isn't too bad either, although I'd prefer 65s 85s, but don't be kicking yourself for that call.

I've seen players gii with A9 when they hit 9 only, vs my OP. I thought he had a set. We're ahead of FD, SD 88, 7x. We lose to 77 66 & 22, the last two being less likely.
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Old 08-30-2019, 02:04 PM   #13
jtm1208
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suave-wizard View Post
We're at least calling flop. Btw, 62s PF isn't too bad either, although I'd prefer 65s 85s, but don't be kicking yourself for that call.

I've seen players gii with A9 when they hit 9 only, vs my OP. I thought he had a set. We're ahead of FD, SD 88, 7x. We lose to 77 66 & 22, the last two being less likely.
behind 76 also, which is a more likely holding then 77/66/22.
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:41 PM   #14
Minatorr
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

yeah never in a million yrs folding here on this action table, let's call and see a turn.
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Old 09-03-2019, 10:02 AM   #15
jmarsh88
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Re: Super Nitty Fold Or All Pro Caliber Punt?

Thanks for the feedback. Hero raised to $200, HJ folds, V jams, hero calls, V shows 76 and holds.


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