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Old 04-27-2010, 11:22 AM   #1
KurtSF
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Suggestion Box

Any ideas you have, questions, or topics to discuss regarding the new forum, the community, standards, etc., can be put here.

Its your forum!
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:30 AM   #2
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Re: Suggestion Box

BBV, Winrates Discussion, Blog Listings and FAQ's of course
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:45 AM   #3
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Oh ya...

First! lol
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:46 AM   #4
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Re: Suggestion Box

I would like to offer the 2nd suggestion.

As said by Kurt this is your forum, BUT, I caution too many offical/OT threads to be started up. If people start making "xxxx regs" threads it will be bad for business, I promise. I understand you want to seek out fellow 2+2ers and talk about the regs and tourists and such but letting out information/gossiping about opponents you play with regularly and have it available for anyone to do a quick google search is not where you want to head. It would be shortsighted to think the pros of such threads out way the cons.

With that said, I have told Kurt I would defer to him on matters such as these so if the majority feels these type threads are good for this forum and Kurt agrees then I guess be my guest. But don't kid yourselves in thinking their is nothing wrong or harmful about these type threads.

I also caution starting too many OT threads in general as this community will quickly devolve into what MSNL is now. The front page has no less than 10 OT/Official threads on the front page and often as many as 15. It can be a pain to get to some good strategy talk as well as be annoying to have your threads constantly bumped to the 2nd and 3rd pages so quickly.

If a need for such threads really exists (again think about the ramifications instead of just, "hey I just wanna bullcrap with these guys") I suggest we make a subforum similar to the one they have in sporting events (fantasy/single team) and OOT (OOTV) and put all the OT/Official threads there.

Just a thought...

I'm very happy for you guys that you were able to get your live forum. Hopefully people choose to conduct themselves as though they were in a live arena when posting. Keeping the respect and common courtesy high and the noise/static down will GREATLY benefit us all in our quest to learn and befriend one another. Lets not turn this forum into another run of the mill washed up strategy forum where people just don't care. Lets strive to hold intriguing discussion and high(er) level debate.

One last thought- i understand the need and want to start a thread and get feedback on a hand you played. It may be best though to contribute to other threads as much (if not more) than to your own. Sharing advice and not being selfish about your own needs is contagious and you will find you get better feedback when you eventually do make a thread as posters will recognize that it is a give and take with you and not just take. Also, spamming this forum with hundreds of new hands every day quickly moves everyones thread off the front pages and often times ends up with a forum full of half answered questions, minimal effort, incomplete thoughts, and ultimately bad information being passed.

Take pride in your posting and thread starting. The effort you put forth in yours and others threads will often be reciprocated when it is you who is seeking advice on a query.

Enjoy the forum!

Last edited by jlocdog; 04-27-2010 at 11:46 AM. Reason: I'm 2nd
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:26 PM   #5
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Re: Suggestion Box

Jloc is probably right...

BBV... has a forum
Blogs... who really cares
FAQ's... a must
...and I would like to have a discussion tread concerning winrates
maybe a 'links' thread could get a sticky if someone ever built a good one
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:36 PM   #6
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Re: Suggestion Box

I agree that every single hand that has a tough decision should not be posted...quality over quantity helps keep things running and allows people to really put thought and debate into their posts rather than quickly perusing multiple posts. I urge people to think about how they played a hand and to avoid the "results-oriented" thinking that often occurs before they decide if a hand is worth discussing.

Otherwise, so far so good mate!
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:59 PM   #7
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Re: Suggestion Box

I agree with jloc about too many official/chat threads.

One thing to keep in mind is that the B&M forum already has the "XXXX regs" threads for the more popular rooms. There's no need to duplicate those efforts here. I think one general chat thread is plenty give the number of regulars this forum will have for a while. If another starts up, just merge it in the main chat thread.

At the same time, a BBV containment thread eliminates a lot of threads that clog the forum. It really helped clean up the micro FR forum. I'd do the same thing and lock and re-load once a month.

Until PTR figures out how to monitor live play, I think we won't see the same number of prop and volume challenge threads found on other forums. With no monitoring, there's no verification of what happens.

Finally, the FAQs should eventually have threads that have noteworthy discussions. It is a considerable convenience to just link the thread and say, "Read this."
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:10 PM   #8
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Re: Suggestion Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough View Post
Jloc is probably right...

BBV... has a forum
Blogs... who really cares
FAQ's... a must
...and I would like to have a discussion tread concerning winrates
maybe a 'links' thread could get a sticky if someone ever built a good one
win rate thread is a must IMO. I think it should be stickied to avoid the OT type of thread. I wouldnt mind starting it or if someone else does w/e. Just give me the word and I will bomb away. Jloc makes good points and I am glad to see him aboard. Along with Kurt he is a good dude/mod/mod dude.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:22 PM   #9
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Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
win rate thread is a must IMO. I think it should be stickied to avoid the OT type of thread. I wouldnt mind starting it or if someone else does w/e. Just give me the word and I will bomb away. Jloc makes good points and I am glad to see him aboard. Along with Kurt he is a good dude/mod/mod dude.
I really really hate the idea of a winrate thread. Just take a look at the 10/20 live winrate train-wreck in HSNL forum. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-20-nl-394497/

There are a ton of problems with a winrate thread...
  • Most people do not keep proper records
  • It takes a long time to get enough of a sample size to be considered valid that by the time you played all those hands if you are a winner you would have moved up in stakes long ago.
  • People have very selective memories when it comes to wins...
  • Game conditions vary widely. If you could get a accurate winrate in say AC, it would not be truly comparable to say the winrate in a poker club in PHX for example.
And this all leads to tons of posts fighting about it. It turns into a on going flame war that serves no purpose.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:28 PM   #10
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Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by Percula View Post
I really really hate the idea of a winrate thread. Just take a look at the 10/20 live winrate train-wreck in HSNL forum. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...-20-nl-394497/

There are a ton of problems with a winrate thread...
  • Most people do not keep proper records
  • It takes a long time to get enough of a sample size to be considered valid that by the time you played all those hands if you are a winner you would have moved up in stakes long ago.
  • People have very selective memories when it comes to wins...
  • Game conditions vary widely. If you could get a accurate winrate in say AC, it would not be truly comparable to say the winrate in a poker club in PHX for example.
And this all leads to tons of posts fighting about it. It turns into a on going flame war that serves no purpose.
True, but I think I have a pretty goid way to start it off rather than whats a good win rate at 1/2 live.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:35 PM   #11
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Re: Suggestion Box

I would have to agree with Percula. I just don't think posting win rates is a good idea. Most people can search to find the relevant threads. Most of his points I agree with 100%, in addition to a few others. The HSNL thread on it is pretty good as well.

In addition, people shouldn't be focusing on winrates. I actually feel it's a form of tilt to be thinking about being up or down or the winrate; you should be focusing on making the correct decisions in each hand, not whether you won or lost. Losers tilt and winners tilt are both big problems that many people don't realize happens to them all the time.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:42 PM   #12
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Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by Percula View Post
I really really hate the idea of a winrate thread. Just take a look at the 10/20 live winrate train-wreck in HSNL forum. . . .

And this all leads to tons of posts fighting about it. It turns into a on going flame war that serves no purpose.
Or an e-peen contest.

If you are improving or the playing conditions change, your win rate will never converge. At low stakes, your goal is to close leaks. The WR will take care of itself.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:44 PM   #13
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Re: Suggestion Box

I'm down for a "best of " thread for this forum once it gets going a bit.

An idea would be to PM a mod with a threads nomination and give a quick recap as to WHY you think the thread should be put on the list. It could be a single post within it or just an overall great discussion takes place. It can cover a concept rarely talked about (or at least as in depth) or just a great clarification for said concept.

The "best of" thread can than be included in our ever evolving FAQ...

edit to add- Thanks Ace, I appreciate that.

edit to add #2- I agree a winrate thread is beyond silly for the reasons mentioned in the thread (and then some...) but I digress...

Last edited by jlocdog; 04-27-2010 at 03:47 PM. Reason: had to give thanks to my peeps
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:51 PM   #14
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Re: Suggestion Box

I guess I am in a different boat with it. I dont care about the brags and all that (I know most people are though). I have been tracking my play for a while now and I just like to see other people results to compare and exchange notes. I have become a broll, hourly rate, and tracking nit in the last year so to me its important and there is a lot you can learn from it. I like to see people with higher hours of play than me to see how they are doing and maybe to see if what I am doing now is obtainable later. I agree there are a lot of dumb threads about win rate etc, but the one link that was given started off pretty "dumb." I think there is a way around it to plug some of the leaks. Yes, there will still be some jack a**es, but it could lead to something good for a lot of people.

edit: Also, if it would be pleasing to the members of llsnl, I can go ahead and start the post with the ideas I have. If it doesnt look good go ahead and delete it.

Would only be a slight, very tiny, ego blow
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:52 PM   #15
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Re: Suggestion Box

Something else that might be interesting to talk about here...

Live bankroll management versus OL BR management.

There are some really interesting (in that they effect the play) things that happen live that you just really dont see a lot of in OL play.
  • The stakes are very much higher for new players. OL I can put $50 on PS and play 0.01/0.02 NL and have a good BR:Stakes ratio. I.e. the low stakes offered by OL play makes it easy for newbies to enter without a lot of money.
  • I think its very hard for the average person to start playing live poker seriously without a much larger risk of ruin because of the entry level stakes. I think this leads to a lot of potentially good even great players to stop playing.
  • Live games sometimes have no cap. Which takes a lot of value out of the OL BR management ideas and more or less tosses them out the window.
  • I think everyone can agree that live NL has a higher variance than OL.
I have often wondered if the average Joe on the street can be successful playing live without a significant win in a MTT or a BBJ or a well paying job to back up their BR. It makes me wonder if many of the people playing at higher stakes (5/10+) simply ran well early in their career and "got lucky".
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:59 PM   #16
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Re: Suggestion Box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Percula View Post
Something else that might be interesting to talk about here...

Live bankroll management versus OL BR management.

There are some really interesting (in that they effect the play) things that happen live that you just really dont see a lot of in OL play.
  • The stakes are very much higher for new players. OL I can put $50 on PS and play 0.01/0.02 NL and have a good BR:Stakes ratio. I.e. the low stakes offered by OL play makes it easy for newbies to enter without a lot of money.
  • I think its very hard for the average person to start playing live poker seriously without a much larger risk of ruin because of the entry level stakes. I think this leads to a lot of potentially good even great players to stop playing.
  • Live games sometimes have no cap. Which takes a lot of value out of the OL BR management ideas and more or less tosses them out the window.
  • I think everyone can agree that live NL has a higher variance than OL.
I have often wondered if the average Joe on the street can be successful playing live without a significant win in a MTT or a BBJ or a well paying job to back up their BR. It makes me wonder if many of the people playing at higher stakes (5/10+) simply ran well early in their career and "got lucky".
Playing devils advocate here, but a lot of people will say that broll management doesnt matter much in 1/2 or lower. Just keep taking shots until you build enough to move up and then protect it. I dont fully subscribe to it, but there are some valid points to be made about it.

Broll management was what I wanted to tie into the win rate thread, btw.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:09 PM   #17
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Re: Suggestion Box

Actually, to tie them together I 100% agree that a much higher br is needed live. However a lot of average joes don't keep very good records (tie in to wr) and tend to only remember their big scores not their medium losses (also tied in to wr)
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:28 PM   #18
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If u wish to earn a living (or significantly add to ur income) the following rules should be followed...

Starting BR: 20 BI for $1/$2
Move up when u have 30 BI for $2/$5
Again moving when u have 45 BI for $5/$10
...and don't play any bigger stakes unless u have 50 BI at that level (unless ur taking a shot)

/BR Thread

...and oh ya, KEEP ACURATE RECORDS! ty
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:31 PM   #19
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Re: Suggestion Box

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Originally Posted by KneedUrDough View Post
If u wish to earn a living (or significantly add to ur income) the following rules should be followed...

Starting BR: 20 BI for $1/$2
Move up when u have 30 BI for $2/$5
Again moving when u have 45 BI for $5/$10
...and don't play any bigger stakes unless u have 50 BI at that level (unless ur taking a shot)

/BR Thread

...and oh ya, KEEP ACURATE RECORDS! ty
The 1/2 part I dont fully agree with. I think it was a Caro book I read and I side with his broll philosophy a lot. Everything else looks good though. Keeping records is half the battle.
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
The 1/2 part I dont fully agree with. I think it was a Caro book I read and I side with his broll philosophy a lot. Everything else looks good though. Keeping records is half the battle.
...Well u can start with less but it'll make ur progression last longer and if ur BR is really low u'll tend to be playing scared $ imho... (10 BI min for $1/$2)
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:22 PM   #21
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Re: Suggestion Box

COTW's? Not sure if they would be good to do with the short supply of players we have now (especially seeing how most are pretty fundamentally solid) but maybe when the volume goes up? COTW on why we raise more than 3-4x live would be a good one to start with! lol
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:27 PM   #22
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Re: Suggestion Box

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COTW on why we raise more than 3-4x live would be a good one to start with! lol
Easy answer, a lot of live players are willing to call larger raises OOP with dominated holdings, profit!
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:29 PM   #23
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Re: Suggestion Box

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Easy answer, a lot of live players are willing to call larger raises OOP with dominated holdings, profit!
I know, but it almost seems as if we need one so people can get over the fact that, yes, we do raise in what seems to be retarded amounts!

Remember all the posts in micros where raising that big would get flamed?
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:09 PM   #24
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Re: Suggestion Box

How about a monthly **** thread like B&M and HSNL have? Keeps the forum clean, keeps threads from going to the zoo or zoo2.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:16 PM   #25
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Re: Suggestion Box

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How about a monthly **** thread like B&M and HSNL have? Keeps the forum clean, keeps threads from going to the zoo or zoo2.
I pI posted this in a BBV type thread in here:

Why dont we have a "lol, poker" low content thread in here too? BBV is like a pack of wild dogs, i wouldnt mind a spot to post my 1 outers and bad reads that lead to sick suckouts or the opposite end as well in here too. It cant hurt. Just a general low-content thread so we can have a general BS thread to just chat about **** and maybe post the occasional suckout.

-----
but uh, co-sine?
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