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Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Stupid bluff rivers the nuts

09-28-2018 , 01:34 PM
Here's a hand from a recent 1/3 session where a pointless bluff ended up working out well.

V is effective stack with $700. He's a relatively competent LAG who I have a lot of history with (perceives me as a LAG).

I have my button straddle on for $10 and get dealt KdQd. 1 EP limper, V raises to 30, 1 caller, and I call from the button. Limper folds.

(Pot $100) Flop Ad3h9h.

Villain opens for $50, 1 fold, I then decide to raise to $150.

I admit to not having any clear reason for this raise. Obviously it's a bluff but all I have are backdoor draws and V is likely relatively strong here - he's not folding any decent Ace to this raise. This is probably a clear fold in the future?

He calls.

(Pot $400) Turn Tc, bringing in a gut shot for me.

V checks, I check behind.

Should I continue to rep a strong hand (mostly sets) here? Especially when I get more equity?

(Pot $400) River Jc

I rivered the nuts (lucky me) with my ill-timed bluff. V checks to me and now my only question is how much to bet. I think the bottom of V's range here is AK - I give him full credit for sets and 2-pair.

How much do I bet here to get max value?

Last edited by krilleater; 09-28-2018 at 01:46 PM.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 01:43 PM
The bottom of V range is AK?? He a LAG he could have Ax sooted, pairs, any broadway combo.

As played bet 2/5th
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09-28-2018 , 01:44 PM
Pot is $390 or so - nice when posters show the pot size each street.

How much do we think he will call with a small pocket pair or a weak A "just because pot size"? That would be the floor for our river bet size.

How can he put us on KQ? Add something for that.

Bet $60? $80? $90? YMMV. I get irritated with myself when I bet the river nuts and don't make any more because the Villain folds. $80 is about four hours worth of win rate, worth trying to capture...
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palrio
The bottom of V range is AK?? He a LAG he could have Ax sooted, pairs, any broadway combo.
He's a LAG when he's pushing the action, but he's not calling a raise on the flop with a weak pair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
How can he put us on KQ? Add something for that.
I think he'll give me a decent amount of credit for KhQh, since I would likely take a line like this with precisely that hand.

As played, he'll snap call anything less than $100 (considering hearts bricked out).

However, I think it's better to polarize here: I'd rather have a 50% chance of him calling a big bet (putting me on missed hearts) than a 90% chance of him calling a small one. V is generally very aware of missed draws and likes to look up river bets when they miss.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 01:52 PM
Man that's an expensive straddle, over 3x the BB. Also please put pot sizes next to streets from now on since it's annoying to do the math.

3b and call are both fine, I like a 3b more since he's a lag with a presumably wide range.

AP I like the raise since you block AQ and AK, and you have the bdnfd. People don't bluff these spots often enough imo. You're also pretty deep so you can put him to the test with his likely one pair. It sounds like you didn't have a good reason at the time so that's bad but I think you are making a decent play fwiw.

Bet the turn, I think you get a fold here the vast majority of the time. It's hard for him to have a hand he can call with, even AQ is probably going to sigh fold. Turn has $350 and you have $520 behind. Bet like 3/4 pot.

AP I doubt he has any set or two pair, it's so small compared to the rest of his Ax and flush draws. Bet 3/4 pot.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by krilleater
He's a LAG when he's pushing the action, but he's not calling a raise on the flop with a weak pair.
He is pushing the action, he raised pre and cbets. He can have JhTh, hence the call on flop, and check on the turn.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 01:59 PM
Bet $350

We rep with missed FD's and target his stronger holdings. LAGs can find a hero call with top pair too.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palrio
He is pushing the action, he raised pre and cbets. He can have JhTh, hence the call on flop, and check on the turn.
I agree he could take this line with JhTh, but that's a draw not a weak pair.

My point is I don't ever really expect V to show up with (for example) Ac6c here.

Last edited by krilleater; 09-28-2018 at 02:22 PM.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 02:06 PM
I like to bet about 220-260, a lot of his range here is 1 pair imo and we want to target that first and foremost
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09-28-2018 , 02:54 PM
You accidentally set yourself up to get paid.

The raise/check/bet line is so bluffy in these situations, I'd fire out $325 and hope he has more than a missed FD to look you up.

In the future, in order to have a better chance of success bluffing, you need to be betting $200-$225 OTT. I can't think of any decent hand that is checking that turn after raising OTF.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 02:58 PM
I suck at deepstack.

I wouldn't straddle.

I don't hate the call in position likely going 4+ ways.

Not in love with the bluff on the flop, I'd rather have more semi-bluff equity (such as a flush draw or at least something). If we're not prepared to barrel, it's pretty meh, imo. I probably just fold against someone betting into 2 opponents, even this guy; if we're going to get out-of-line I think just calling might be better.

I probably give up on the turn too and try to bink, but that's what I usually do when people don't fold. Likely an argument for barrelling here.

I ship the river. It's not much more than a PSB bet. We have an aggro image. The main draw busted on the flop. There's a good chance he has a decent hand.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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09-28-2018 , 03:14 PM
^ if you suck at deepstack straddling makes it closer to 70bb
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdelore
^ if you suck at deepstack straddling makes it closer to 70bb
Maybe I should blind raise to make it closer to easy peasy 20bb?

GsmileyfaceG
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09-28-2018 , 03:39 PM
Shove river because your line makes no sense and how can V fold top pair in a 3b pot to a line that makes no sense?
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09-28-2018 , 04:05 PM
Pre I like 3-betting vs a LAG and a capped cold-caller, being IP overrealizing equity and having blockers to calling ranges and being able to play very well postflop if called.

Otf I would either flat or fold, raising is pretty strange imo, and it can get very easy to start overbluffing.

ott seems ok.

otr our line makes no sense so gotta go for the max, at least $320+.
Stupid bluff rivers the nuts Quote
09-28-2018 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wj94
Shove river because your line makes no sense and how can V fold top pair in a 3b pot to a line that makes no sense?
This. Just shove. It polarizes you to super strong hands but also more to bluffs than betting like $200. He's much more likely to call w/ Ax.
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09-28-2018 , 09:28 PM
Ya this is like a perfect time to do something crazy like overbet the pot. Our range is so weak and our hand is so strong.
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