$1/2 game. Fourth time at casino. Playing for about 3 hours. Table is running hot and cold, interspersing lots of limping (even chops), with occasional fireworks - all ins in early streets.

Villain 1 (BB - 100bb) : old, grumpy looking guy that sat down to my immediate left with 50bb 2 orbits ago. In his first hand in CO - he calls MP ($20) raise then cold calls a 3bet from BB for his stack. He shows down KQs vs AA for his first buy-in. Since then he took the lead on a couple of hands and played TPDecentK, pushed and doubled up.

Villain 2: (BTN - 100bb). 30ish asian. Been playing with him on my right for the evening. He can take stabs on weakness and when he gets lead tends to keep it until he gets pressure... but can be folded off hands - even ones that he starts out sticky. Eg. he raised and called a 3 bet in MP. On baby rainbow flop he calls flop and brick turn. But folds to third barrel on Qx river (showed me JJ).

Hero: (SB -100bb): Fiftish play quite TAG tonight... chipped up quite a bit with frequenct raises, cbets and squeezes. Lost big hand orbit or so ago QQ < AA (folded to 5 bet pf).

Preflop comes back to me with 4 limpers in the SB. I've mostly folded or raised here so far, but looking at Q6hh - I complete. BB checks option.

FLOP ($12) AhQx8h

Action checks to the BTN who bets $10.
I raise to $30. BB cold calls, BTN calls.


TURN ($100 ish) 3x

Hero ($170 behind) ?

I'm particularly interested in comments on sizing (both on the flop and on the turn). In general I don't give enough attention to that aspect, and can leave myself in awkward spots. FWIW - I figured at this point that I was dealing with other FDs or weak aces.

Why are you raising otf? As played I wouldn't recommend betting again ott. I would be checking a calling a bet otf.

I'm folding flop unless I have a really good reason not to. Everyone is short stacked, and this hand is a draw not to the nut. As played, I'm folding the turn.

Fold flop?? You know we have MP+FD right? If you only draw to the nuts, you're playing way too tight. And no one is short stacked. Everyone started with 100 BB.

We have a pretty high equity hand here. I'm cool with the c/r but I would have made it way bigger, like $50. You're trying to maximize your FE. $30 makes it really easy for BN to peel and still leaves you in the dark as to what he has.

As played, I would definitely bet again. I'm not going to c/r small OTF and give up OTT. Both V's are generally weak when they don't reraise you OTF. Your stack size is really awkward though. Part of me just wants to shove. Otherwise you could bet $80 and shut down OTR unimproved.

I don't hate the x/r if it was sized larger. I like 50 as stated above, and shove the turn. If you are going to x/r you gotta be pretty sure you are going to get folds from weak Aces. The bad part about x/r is you are likely going to fold out weaker f/d's that you could stack if the h hits. So the question is do you want to turn your hand into a bluff or take the chance to stack a smaller flush. Im ok turning it into a bluff here, as long as you are confident of getting folds from weak Aces, its hard for anyone to have 2 pair here, as only A8 seems most likely for 2 pair. The btn bet seems weak, according to OP read, that he likes to stab weakness. Also, if you think you can often get weak aces to call the flop but fold the turn, I really like the x/r as you will probably win more in the long run if they are folding at a high percentage to a pot / slightly over pot shove on turn after calling a raise to 50 on flop, as opposed to the times you make a flush over flush and stack the lower flush. Counting how rare that is, and the times you lose to the k high flush. If they aren't folding the Ace, and are willing to go broke with it. Don't raise, just call and see the turn.

Masta--

You shanked the flop, bro. Why would you do that? BOTH of the other players have position on you, that's your fundamental problem. What you did didn't help with that.

I think correct line here is lead flop, lead any turn.

As played, you must lead turn, IMO.

I can't ever see folding this flop without huge pressure. But definitely I could have played it more passively (ie just call the flop bet).

This is exactly what I was thinking after the game. If I'm going to c/r I probably want to size it that I'm threatening a PSB OTT.. but note that I'm really only expecting 1 caller at most. If I c/r 50 and the BTN calls then we have 112 in pot and I have 150 back. In retrospect I think that was the play.

A couple of keys points here. I didn't think about the flush over flush at the time (even though I did think it likely at least one player was on the FD). And (probably my biggest miscalc) was thinking I could get out the weak ace. In my defence, I figured V2 (the flop bettor) was my target for the weak ace and I am sure I could have gotten him off... but when V1 calls - it's more questionable. He's the guy that called down his Short Stack with KQ against an all in.

Interesting.... I never really considered this... I was looking to max. FE and I was first to act into 6 players in a limped pot. Roughly my idea was to call an EP bettor and c/r a LP bettor. Why would the lead flop be better?

Anyway... the rest of the hand....

A brick hits the turn. The pot is about $100 and we all have about $170 back. I'm sure I'm facing another FD (don't know how good) and a weak ace (or perhaps they are both on the same type of hand). I could have checked, bet normal or went all in. I bet $75 and both called.

The river comes 2h completing my flush. I push and BTN calls with K4hh.

If you want to maximize FE, bet! In addition, this hand can stand a raise, esp. if a raise gets you HU. Leading balances your range. It gives you an information advantage.

Calling an EP bettor won't maximize FE.

hmmm. I think a C/R against a BTN bet with a history of stabbing has more FE than leading. I think the C/R info a big field from a blind reps 2p+. And that is plan A.

Calling an early position bettor is really Plan B... hit the hand on turn.

One advantage of the flop lead is that it sizes better. eg. assuming same two callers flop and turn... I'd bet $10 OTF ($40 pot), $35 OTT ($145 pot) leaving me with $155 for PSB OTR option. (But honestly, not sure I'd be working out all that in the moment).

First, the amount of $ you can win in this session is limited. I am guessing the rake is the over all winner. Second, you are probably playing with mostly beginners who can really damage your bankroll. Just because they may be weak does not mean they cannot win big against you.

As for the flop. This is not a draw to the nut as I mentioned before. There are 8 cards out there increasing the possibility somebody is going along with the Kh. They certainly are not calling hoping to make a spade flush. So we make the flush, bet and get shoved to. How good do we really feel with this action?

Finally, unless you have tens more $100.00 bills with you and the option to rebuy, this is a poor investment for your chips.

So, I can see folding the flop because this is the real world, and not theory, where we have an endless money supply. Chips are easy to lose and hard to hold on to, why make it harder than it is?

Curious about the "huge pressure" part. If you held Q, Q, would you be quiet, happily calling along, or betting big and chasing everyone out? What is the bigger payoff?

We all play differently. We should be open to the possibility that the table will not play like us or do what we want them to because it is us making the bets.

Just don't understand your points. But thanks for the response.

I think this hand was played fine (albeit small raise sizing flop) and I'm probably just stuffing turn for max FE, what can v's have that your not ahead of? You have blockers to everything but A8 and 88, and your in great shape against an A or a flush draw. If you lead for even 2/3pot on turn your basically commited, and as played were never check/folding turn. So just RIP it and put flush draws and decent As in a really tough spot