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strategic adjustments for a "spread limit" structure? strategic adjustments for a "spread limit" structure?

08-15-2019 , 07:04 AM
So I've been playing in some nlh live games recently where they use a structure called "spread limit" with the limit being $100. This means you can't bet more than $100 on any street. The max bet is $100 preflop as well as every street postflop. So if you bet $90 the max raise is $10 on top. This is the case for both 1/2 and 2/5. Obviously theoritical strategy should be a lot different in a format like this (especially at 2/5 where you essentially can't even play for full stacks at 100bbs).

So what are some key adjustments I should be making? I'm assuming that our implied odds are much lower (2/5 in particular) so hands like suited connectors and small pocket pairs lose value? We should look to play more hands that hold raw equity?

At 1/2 I don't think the difference is nearly as huge as 2/5 so I've been implementing a fairly similar strategy as the one I'd use in any normal format but I'm thinking of playing 2/5 as the rake is the same as at 1/2 so I'm wondering what are some key adjustments we should be making?

Should our opening size be 2x instead of the usually 3-4x? Assuming we get 3bet this allows us to make a reasonable 4bet?

If we're looking to polarize our range on the turn or river we should just always make the max cap bet? Even if our hand is strong but not nutted?

Also I'm guessing trapping loses a ton of value in low SPR situations? We should generally lean towards wanting more equity on our draws?
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08-15-2019 , 08:13 AM
Do a search on spread limit. There are some good threads on it ITF. Basically, 1/2-100 plays almost exactly like NL, but 2/5-100 is like a weird hybrid of NL and limit. IOs go down, but you also get a lot more bluff catching, so you can get some value OTT and OTR in places where threats of bigger bets would generate folds.

Generally never trap in LLSNL, and even more so for spread limit. Opening sizing is all about fat value, imo, as flat calls are WAYYYY more common than 3-bets.
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08-15-2019 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
This means you can't bet more than $100 on any street. The max bet is $100 preflop as well as every street postflop. So if you bet $90 the max raise is $10 on top. This is the case for both 1/2 and 2/5.
Are you sure about this? Granted that I have only played spread limit in Colorado, but there it is a $100 max bet per action. So to use your example if someone bet $90, you could make it $190 with $90 of that being your call and the $100 more being the max bet.

At 2/5 it is quite easy to get 200 bigs in the middle by the river.
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08-15-2019 , 09:06 AM
Missed that in the OP. Yeah, what Cowboy said is definitely what I am used to in spread as well, both in CO and in MN. The max is for a bet, not a street.
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08-15-2019 , 09:29 AM
thanks for the replies and yea I confirmed it, its $100 max any player can put in, not $100 max bet. So $90 can only be raised to $100... very weird ik
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08-15-2019 , 09:54 AM
Is this at a casino? If so what state? This sound like some weird home/ club game.
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08-15-2019 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyCold
Is this at a casino? If so what state? This sound like some weird home/ club game.
its the casino at the canadian national exhibition in toronto (CNE).
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08-15-2019 , 10:56 AM
Wow. Google confirms.

I would just play a tight range. Big pairs will be your friend. Really don't see any reason to play SCs or even Ax suited because when you hit you can't extract max value because your implied odds are capped.

I wouldn't play unless this is the only game available.
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08-15-2019 , 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ($)
its the casino at the canadian national exhibition in toronto (CNE).
Play at Niagra Falls is my read on this situation.

Ontario is weird. A lot of the smaller casinos is 100 bet max, meaning you can go 90 > 190 > 290 on one street but Ive never heard of 100 max per street. I would just choose not to play in this game but if you do a decent amount of studying on the math surrounding the betting structure I am sure you can find big edges since everyone will be playing the game like its NLHE on TV. Poker is about making money, Id probably just short stack the game, wait for a big hand, double up and leave.
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08-15-2019 , 11:50 PM
a) I figured he was talking about the CNE. I am from Toronto as well and have been to CNE 5 times already.

b) There is a thread on the CNE under Venues& Communities and they mention the spread limit briefly.
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08-15-2019 , 11:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyCold
Wow. Google confirms.

I would just play a tight range. Big pairs will be your friend. Really don't see any reason to play SCs or even Ax suited because when you hit you can't extract max value because your implied odds are capped.

I wouldn't play unless this is the only game available.
I disagree, the CNE is a wonderful venue. Good TAG players can do very well here. There are so many loose players. Calling a raise with K-5 offsuit? Check. For many, any two will do.

There's also the notorious "maniac". I can't remember his name. But he just goes blindly to 100 pre flop each and every time. You won't find that very often in Niagara.

The loose, awful play makes up for the high rake (10% up to 8) and spread limit cap.
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08-15-2019 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewoldpro
I disagree, the CNE is a wonderful venue. Good TAG players can do very well here. There are so many loose players. Calling a raise with K-5 offsuit? Check. For many, any two will do.

There's also the notorious "maniac". I can't remember his name. But he just goes blindly to 100 pre flop each and every time. You won't find that very often in Niagara.

The loose, awful play makes up for the high rake (10% up to 8) and spread limit cap.
You can find loose awful play anywhere.
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08-15-2019 , 11:57 PM
As for strategy? These are my general observations:

1) No trapping. Unless you have an absolute monster hand and position. But generally if you flop the nuts..bet..raise. You can't make up for trapping on the river by making a big bet. Just bet, raise. You probably will get called.

2) Keep bluffing to a minimum..lots of calling stations, even more than in NL

3) i do actually like suited Aces and suited connectors. There is less implied odds but more people sticking around to the river.
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08-16-2019 , 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewoldpro
I disagree, the CNE is a wonderful venue. Good TAG players can do very well here.
I would play the 1/2 game since the 2/5 would be a lot closer to bingo. You can't protect your hand so I would say this setup favors chasers compared to any other style of play. At least at 1/2 there would be room to play actual poker.
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08-16-2019 , 01:04 PM
So been playing in a really weird structure 1/2 game where the max money that can go in on any street is $100 (50bbs). So If someone bets 90 you can only raise 10 on top... That said the game is really soft, half the players at the table are fumbling around and don't seem to fully even know the rules of poker etc. The rake is also relatively really low compared to other places. Been playing 1/2 there but thinking of playing 2/5 as the rake is the same and the quality of players also seem the same. I'm wondering if its really worth it though given that the same $100 cap applies to the 2/5 game which is strategically much more significant than at 1/2... Assuming everyones making more mistakes there (myself included though) do you think it would be much higher EV or should I just stick to the 1/2 game?

Does the cap at the 2/5 game make the rake somewhat worse than it seems? Its 10% capped at $8 btw.
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08-16-2019 , 05:43 PM
Do you prefer limit or NL? The 2/5 game is more like limit than the 1/2 game is.
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08-22-2019 , 03:24 PM
What has been your win rates at the 1/2/100 and 2/5/100? It seems to me that your edge in poker theory would be more useful in a 200 BB game at the 1/2 where you can win a maximum of $400 in a hand vs villain, while in 2/5 everybody is relatively short-stacked as you can only win up to 80 BB. AGCO's rationale for the $100 max bet/street is to limit the losses of even the worst players to $400 per hand, which is to the disadvantage of winning 2/5 players who are better at deep stack poker of >= 100 BB.

Do the 2/5 regs at CNE have a similar skill level to 1/2 players, unlike at Casino Niagara and most other casinos where the 2/5 regs are overall much better than the players at the lowest stake tables?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ($)
Been playing 1/2 there but thinking of playing 2/5 as the rake is the same and the quality of players also seem the same. I'm wondering if its really worth it though given that the same $100 cap applies to the 2/5 game which is strategically much more significant than at 1/2... Assuming everyones making more mistakes there (myself included though) do you think it would be much higher EV or should I just stick to the 1/2 game?
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