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Old 05-21-2018, 09:21 PM   #1
djevans
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Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

CO - Hero $1900 - In for 2k so down a little bit - missed tons of hands on my first buy in - just missing flops with AK and AQ and losing with QQ ect. Doubled up with AK flopping top 2 and shoving turn and got called by pair and flush draw.

SB - Villain - $850 - was up to $2500 but has been losing - playing too many hands and he doubled me up with AJ vs my AK on the AK48 board.

BTN - Villain 2 $6000 - This guy is on a heater and can't seem to miss.

Hero is dealt 55 in HJ

UTG goes $20
I call along with 3 other people
5 people see a flop

$100
589

Villain 1 goes $55
random caller
I go $155
Villain 2 has raising chips out and makes it $180 - but didn't see my raise and dealer says there was a raise in front of you. so he is forced to just call the $155
Villain 1 calls
Random caller folds

$565
3 people to the turn
K

Villain 1 leads $250
Hero???
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:26 PM   #2
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

weird. I guess call. sb seems like he's just donating.
If V2 goes nutso I guess fold?. Hoping he doesn't overplay 89 here which is only value hand you beat.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:30 PM   #3
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Depends how big of a pot you want to play. Board is fairly wet with plenty of draws out there.

I’d lean raise but if you want to protect your stack vs. V2 then call I suppose.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:57 PM   #4
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

I call, but closer to a fold than a raise
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:07 AM   #5
Gettingood
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Raise is an overplay here imo. Calling keeps all the worse hands in the pot with very little equity but raising folds out almost our whole target range. It isolates us vs nuts, bigger sets and maybe 89, fd+sd type hands. 55 has <50% equity vs that range (~40%)

Flop was seen by 5 players and raised. we are still 3way ott facing aggression and 400bb deep vs strong, uncapped range from V2.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:16 AM   #6
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

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Originally Posted by Gettingood View Post
Raise is an overplay here imo. Calling keeps all the worse hands in the pot with very little equity but raising folds out almost our whole target range. It isolates us vs nuts, bigger sets and maybe 89, fd+sd type hands. 55 has <50% equity vs that range (~40%)

Flop was seen by 5 players and raised. we are still 3way ott facing aggression and 400bb deep vs strong, uncapped range from V2.
We crossed that bridge on the flop. If you’re that worried about V2 then just fold the turn. What are you going to do, call/fold if V2 raises over you?
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:56 AM   #7
Gettingood
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

V2 is going to raise roughly the same range that would call our raise so we have ~40% vs that range and a clear call b/c of odds. I am not sure villain would bet 89 otr anymore ui after raising the turn so I very well might fold river vs aggression and call w/ 88+. I’d fold 89 ott though so 55 is very close if not the bottom of our calling range.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:01 AM   #8
Chicagodude
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

I would 3! here but i'm not as good a player as you guys and I also never am that deep. It's hard to imagine a turn card i'd like if it didn't pair the board though.
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Old 05-22-2018, 10:05 AM   #9
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Weird is right. I flat the turn, but if V2 raises, this might be a fold. He'd have to be pretty ballsy to raise here w/o a hand that beats 55. It might be best to just fold now, but not sure I could do it.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:13 AM   #10
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball View Post
I call, but closer to a fold than a raise
+1. Most of the time, you flop a set and you go to the mat with it. Here is the exception. We are 400bbs deep in a 5 way pot, with 2 villains showing strong interest, us having worst set, and a straight already possible. Are we hoping both have 98, or one has 98, and the other has a combo draw going nuts? seems more likely one has a better set or straight.

Not saying I could actually fold this in person (to a subsequent raise after we call), but with the buffer of my computer screen I think it is the right play.
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:16 AM   #11
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

What was V2's reaction after he put the 180 in? Was he trying to put in a reraise and was stopped by the dealer? Any info at all there? Turn is no fun but at least we are happy to stack off with V1. I would likely fold if V2 goes nuts
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Old 05-22-2018, 11:36 AM   #12
PokerNoob@
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Pre - fine

Flop - I would raise bigger to $200-$220.

Turn, you need better read on V2. I would prefer to raise to $700ish (leave us $1k behind) which would push V1 allin and also setup an image that we will jam on the river. We basically rep set 9s or 67s here. I know it is over played, but if you just call the turn it under reps your hand too, you'd face a lot of pressure from huge stack in position, and also on the river. If V2 call your raise, give up on the river unless you have some live reads on him or 5 hit the board.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:26 PM   #13
Joey913
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
We crossed that bridge on the flop. If you’re that worried about V2 then just fold the turn. What are you going to do, call/fold if V2 raises over you?
Yes I think we do call/fold to a reasonable raise by V2. Its a tough spot but I think we need to get away from the usually correct thought that "I flopped a set and therefore I'm allowed to go broke and just claim bad luck if I'm beat" given how deep we are and the described villains/action.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:16 PM   #14
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Did V2 act out of turn on the flop, not seeing you had cards, or did he think you called?

A raise to $180 after a $55 bet + call + call is very tiny and wouldn't lead me to believe he is super nutted. It also makes his action binding - perhaps he would have chosen a different action had he seen your raise, but now he's forced to call.

With JT and T7 OESD's out there and a **** load of pair + draw's (8X, 9X etc.) out there I still think a turn raise is in order due to the weird nature of this hand.

Sure, we're behind sometimes but we played our hand aggressive so I don't see why we take our pedal off the gas now.
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Old 05-22-2018, 01:34 PM   #15
setintostraight
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Raise to $225-275 on the flop next time. You have stations at the table (5 people calling an UTG raise with pretty likely garbage), charge them the max for it.

Raising properly on the flop would have let you jam turn if either SB or BB leads into you.

What's the effective stack on the flop? Is it SB?
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:29 PM   #16
shorn7
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Did V2 act out of turn on the flop, not seeing you had cards, or did he think you called?

A raise to $180 after a $55 bet + call + call is very tiny and wouldn't lead me to believe he is super nutted. It also makes his action binding - perhaps he would have chosen a different action had he seen your raise, but now he's forced to call.

With JT and T7 OESD's out there and a **** load of pair + draw's (8X, 9X etc.) out there I still think a turn raise is in order due to the weird nature of this hand.

Sure, we're behind sometimes but we played our hand aggressive so I don't see why we take our pedal off the gas now.
Yeah I guess bolded is kind of important in the decision here. Not only that but would the whale be raising middle/top set/flopped str8 on the flop? IT seems that IP he might flat for one street with any of those to raise so he might not be super nutted as johnny suggests.

SB line is massively weird and smells like 89 or K9 maybe. The more I think about I actually might like a flat so we can maybe GII versus the whale if he spazzes. If we raise the turn, he might shut down and then our win is potentially limited to just SB stack. I think I am willing to go broke here, but if I do so, I want the best chance of winning a MASSIVE pot and I think flatting the turn and hoping V2 raises is the best way to do that.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:44 PM   #17
djevans
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

V2 didn't see I had cards.

On the turn i'm in a tough spot but really don't see how I can possibly fold. Not sure if calling / clicking it back -

I could also be beat by V1 although it is unlikely given at how wide he paid me off in the other hand I had AK
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:51 PM   #18
shorn7
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Re: Strange spot with bottom set 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
V2 didn't see I had cards.

On the turn i'm in a tough spot but really don't see how I can possibly fold. Not sure if calling / clicking it back -

I could also be beat by V1 although it is unlikely given at how wide he paid me off in the other hand I had AK
Agree. This is the only raise size that makes sense and might keep the whale interested. I still think calling with the intention of potentially backraise shoving is best. That way, you can always potentially fold to if V1 bet/3! shoves over whale as then the odds that you aren't drawing to 1 out increase dramatically.

TBH, I also agree on being behind V1, but for his stack size I don't care...I am felting. Another reason why I like a call better.

Cool hand
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