Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Straight On River, Should i let it go?

08-21-2014 , 07:09 AM
Blinds £0.25/0.50
Birmingham Casino UK

Seat 1 Very Good Tag (£170) ( Mid 20's, Casually Dressed, Slowly Grinding, making good plays, always tends to have the goods)

Seat 2 Calling Station (£30) (Chinese businessman, who just keeps on buying in for £20 and losing it calling every bet)

Seat 3 Hero (£100) (Mid 20's, Casually dressed, tended to play quite tight, made a couple of moves but every time showed the goods)

Seat 4 Drunk (£150) (Drunken teenager bought in for maximum, Only been sat down for 1 hour made pre flop raises up to £20, bets really agressively, has showen a couple big bluffs already, called £50 all in with second pair on flop against nit and got lucky catching two fair on river)

Seat 5 Nit (£10) (asian guy, plays hardly any hands, looks to me only plays 10-10+ and A/10s+ AJ+ KQ)


Tag (utg) calls
Calling Station folds
Hero (co) looks at (AhJh) raises to £3.25
Villain (button) calls
Nit,Calling Station both fold
Tag calls

Flop Kd,10h,6c
Pot (£10.25)

Tag checks
Hero bets £8.00
Drunken folds
Tag Calls

Turn 6h

Tag Checks
Hero Checks

Turn Qs

Tag Checks
Hero Bets £15.00
Tag Raises to £50.00
Hero ???

Tag shows over XX

What is in tags range?
Should the hero call?

Last edited by madtilt180; 08-21-2014 at 07:18 AM.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-21-2014 , 12:01 PM
I would call. He limp-called pre. Could have A6 or two pair. Your hand is a little under-repped. I doubt he has TT, QQ, or KK if he's a good TAG UTG -- well, if he's as described, he should never have these hands. The only hand I'm scared of is 66, and that's just a cooler. It could be a chop.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-21-2014 , 05:07 PM
This is a sick spot and it depends on how "good" the TAG is.

If we assume he is competent, then he should NOT be calling a decent preflop raise with Reverse Implied Odds hands like KQ or KJ or KT. So his preflop calling range should be pockets set mining, AK, and "maybe" AQs, AJs, ATs.

Come flop, when he limp calls, this narrows his range of hands to AK, TT, 66.

On the river, the only hands that c/r river here are boats and quads. AK isn't c/r'ing river when the Q hits.

So as sick as it sounds, if V is a solid competent TAG then we should actually fold this river simply because there really isn't enough in V's range that he shows up here with that we beat. ANd similarly, there are no draws in his range in this spot that could bluff the river. The only draws that could be in V's range on the flop are gutter ball AQ and AJ draws and I seriously doubt he's calling flop bet with a gutter ball draw if he is "competent" as you describe. So yeah, I expect V to show up here with TT for the boat or some sicko 66 quads most of the time in this spot when he c/r blasts you on the river.

The only other way you can call here is if you feel V has been purposefully floating you merely to bluff you off of rivers with airballs. If somehow in your mind you see V as a big action aggro floater and bluffer than sure we can call. But there is nothing in your OP indicating this so this is a fold.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-21-2014 , 10:57 PM
I think that we pretty much have to double barrel against this turn against a decent TAG. Given he limped UTG, his range is largely small pairs, suited connectors, and maybe some suited broadways. As such, on this turn, the only hands he can continue with are pretty much 66 for quads, and KTs (assuming he even limps that UTG). He should have a lot of draws in his range to c/c flop, fairly sure he would raise 66 on this flop a non-zero amount of the time as well. He might c/c flop with 6x some of the time, but given he is 'decent', I doubt it (although given he l/c UTG, he can't be that decent). I doubt he has TT ever here given your description.

As played I think we're only losing to 66 exactly, and if he's a TAG, he should be aware that our hand looks a lot like a single-pair. I honestly think that QJ makes up a lot of his range here, since if he's been making good plays, I think QJ is the most likely holding for him. His range here honestly seems like only 66 and QJ, with AJ and AQ also being possibilities (albeit discounted due to him both likely raising them pre, and not necessarily calling flop).
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-21-2014 , 11:35 PM
I think a lot of the time he is bluffing here after calling with just a pair on the flop. He might be thinking there's just no way you can call after the line you took.

I understand villain check/calling the flop with TT or 66, but then he doesn't fire on the turn or the river? I haven't played a lot of live, so IDK if you'll see that a lot or not. But, it seems odd. Especially for a solid TAG.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-22-2014 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNewkirk
I think a lot of the time he is bluffing here after calling with just a pair on the flop. He might be thinking there's just no way you can call after the line you took.

I understand villain check/calling the flop with TT or 66, but then he doesn't fire on the turn or the river? I haven't played a lot of live, so IDK if you'll see that a lot or not. But, it seems odd. Especially for a solid TAG.

Most tags freak out when they get quads and check every street.

I dont think I can fold here. He could have peeled with 78s 89s and is now bluffing. Before I could consider folding I would want to know how long youve played with him. if its less than 4 hours I would say your read isnt strong enough to put him on 66 here.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote
08-22-2014 , 11:35 PM
Importantly, you need to compute your equity required to call here OTR. The final pot would be (10.25+16+100) = 126.25, and it would be 35 to call, meaning you have to have at least 28% equity if you're going to call.

Of course V can have TT (3 combos) and 66 (1 combo). But that's pretty much it, unless you think he's not opening with QQ (and, btw, if you think its likely that he plays QQ like this, then this hand is a snap fold now).

So for you to call, you need basically 8 or more combos of hands that V could play this way.

If we give him some KQs, AJs and AQs hands, I think we've got plenty.

Another thing to consider, would V take this line with a hand like QT or QJ in an attempt to blow you off AK? IOW, is his x/r OTR a pure bluff?

I think its definitely close, but I would lean towards calling here, and expect to lose about 1/2 the time.

Lastly, since you opened to 6.5bb, I am thinking this is a normal size open? If this is true, then I would play these tables as if the blinds were 1/1. Which means this really isn't a huge pot as if it were normally a .25/.50 game (250bb). Not that ultimate pot size really has much to do with whether a call is +EV or not. Its just that, I would not be playing this hand as if we were 200bb deep -- but rather play like we are 100bb deep -- and thus, I'm pretty much not going to be able to fold here for 100bb deep.
Straight On River, Should i let it go? Quote

      
m